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Political will is necessary but so is currency, which we don't yet have in the quantities we need it. I'm so puzzled as to what the thinking is behind this assertion. It would be great to have some steer as to where it fits within eg the alternative viewpoints sketched out in https://jwmason.org/slackwire/thirteen-questions-about-money/
Being an average person who has little nuanced understanding of politics, I'm trying to understand what your ideal political formula looks like - in a couple of sentences of rhetoric. For example, 'Bring back hanging and end migration!' or alternatively 'sustainability, equity and diversity! power to the people!' Currently it all looks like sludge, and I think your average bloke would see it the same, if not in more extreme terms
22
« Last post by Oldmanmatt on Today at 10:33:28 am »
I don’t like the Tory party, but what has Labour ever done for us?
Other than….
Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.
Low mortgage rates.
Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.
Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.
Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.
Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.
Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.
Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.
Employment is at its highest level ever.
Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.
85,000 more nurses.
32,000 more doctors.
Brought back matrons to hospital wards.
Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.
Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.
Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.
NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.
Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.
Restored city-wide government to London.
Record number of students in higher education.
Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.
Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.
Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
£200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.
On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.
Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.
All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.
A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.
600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.
Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.
Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.
Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.
Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.
Banned fox hunting.
Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.
Free TV licences for over-75s.
Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.
Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.
Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.
New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.
Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.
Free eye test for over 60s.
More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.
Free entry to national museums and galleries.
Overseas aid budget more than doubled.
Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.
Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.
Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.
Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.
1997-2010
Yes, but apart from that, what have they ever done for us? You are John Cleese and I claim my £10.
23
« Last post by andy popp on Today at 10:32:48 am »
I think this is correct; my expectations are indeed very low. I'm 30 and have never voted in an election, of any sort, where my preferred outcome won until a few weeks ago at the locals. I am fucking sick of it
This is my children, born in 1994 and 98. In many ways, it's even my experience - I've known only 13 years of Labour government in the 45 years since Thatcher won in May 1979 (I was lying in a hospital bed, listening to the news on the radio having just had my appendix out). My daughter is a classic, super-progressive Gen Z, disgusted by Labour over Gaza, abandonment of green commitments etc., but she told me yesterday that she'll be voting for them. As I would too.
24
« Last post by monkoffunk on Today at 10:29:33 am »
I don’t like the Tory party, but what has Labour ever done for us?
Other than….
Longest period of sustained low inflation since the 60s.
Low mortgage rates.
Introduced the National Minimum Wage and raised it to £5.52.
Over 14,000 more police in England and Wales.
Cut overall crime by 32 per cent.
Record levels of literacy and numeracy in schools.
Young people achieving some of the best ever results at 14, 16, and 18.
Funding for every pupil in England has doubled.
Employment is at its highest level ever.
Written off up to 100 per cent of debt owed by poorest countries.
85,000 more nurses.
32,000 more doctors.
Brought back matrons to hospital wards.
Devolved power to the Scottish Parliament.
Devolved power to the Welsh Assembly.
Dads now get paternity leave of 2 weeks for the first time.
NHS Direct offering free convenient patient advice.
Gift aid was worth £828 million to charities last year.
Restored city-wide government to London.
Record number of students in higher education.
Child benefit up 26 per cent since 1997.
Delivered 2,200 Sure Start Children’s Centres.
Introduced the Equality and Human Rights Commission.
£200 winter fuel payment to pensioners & up to £300 for over-80s.
On course to exceed our Kyoto target for reducing greenhouse gas emissions.
Restored devolved government to Northern Ireland.
Over 36,000 more teachers in England and 274,000 more support staff and teaching assistants.
All full time workers now have a right to 24 days paid holiday.
A million pensioners lifted out of poverty.
600,000 children lifted out of relative poverty.
Introduced child tax credit giving more money to parents.
Scrapped Section 28 and introduced Civil Partnerships.
Brought over 1 million social homes up to standard.
Inpatient waiting lists down by over half a million since 1997.
Banned fox hunting.
Cleanest rivers, beaches, drinking water and air since before the industrial revolution.
Free TV licences for over-75s.
Banned fur farming and the testing of cosmetics on animals.
Free breast cancer screening for all women aged between 50-70.
Free off peak local bus travel for over-60s.
New Deal – helped over 1.8 million people into work.
Over 3 million child trust funds have been started.
Free eye test for over 60s.
More than doubled the number of apprenticeships.
Free entry to national museums and galleries.
Overseas aid budget more than doubled.
Heart disease deaths down by 150,000 and cancer deaths down by 50,000.
Cut long-term youth unemployment by 75 per cent.
Free nursery places for every three and four-year-olds.
Free fruit for most four to six-year-olds at school.
1997-2010
25
« Last post by Oldmanmatt on Today at 10:28:44 am »
I don't disagree with any of that, Andy. I think you're right: I'm exasperated and my expectations are low. There's lots that I want to see a new government do to try and drag us out of the mire that the Conservatives have left us in. Political will is necessary but so is currency, which we don't yet have in the quantities we need it. That's why, for me, my priorities are economic stability, growth, and productivity (plus the environment [climate and energy] and housing, but we need the first bits to make the second bits happen - in fact they are interconnected). And I recognise that these issues are complex enough not to be turned around simply in a single parliament.
As you describe, we've been veering from one crisis to another since at least 2016 and so much of it hasn't been precipitated by external pressures but by the internal machinations of the Tory party. For those living in truly safe Labour seats I can understand an intention to vote for a 3rd party, but for those who have the slimmest chance to unseat the Conservatives it seems crazy not to throw your weight behind whoever is best placed to unseat them, most likely Labour.
To quote David Sedaris, writing about Trump Vs Clinton:
I think of being on an airplane. The flight attendant comes down the aisle with her food cart and, eventually, parks it beside my seat. "Can I interest you in the chicken?" she asks. "Or would you prefer the platter of shit with bits of broken glass in it?" To be undecided in this election is to pause for a moment and then ask how the chicken is cooked.
That's how I feel when I see people complaining that Keir Starmer isn't their perfect Prime Minister.
Very much this. A lot of people want to jump from one speeding train, onto another heading in the other direction. Almost certainly disastrous. Either the train stops in a safe station and everyone files across the platform in orderly fashion to the other train, which then sets off at a measured rate, or quite a few people are going to get hurt and even more will panic and run off in odd directions. Even if the Tory train has ground to a halt ( I’m not sure it made it to the platform, or, better image, it managed to destroy half the platform as it crashed into the station), how many people would be willing to jump onto the Labour train if it’s already moving? Corbyn was a Casey Jones, runaway train, in the eyes of many. Starmer is the quiet, efficient, conductor, guiding people to their seats and helping lift their case onto the rack. He’s talking about the first few stations on the route and carefully not mentioning the final destination.
26
« Last post by stone on Today at 10:24:29 am »
Political will is necessary but so is currency, which we don't yet have in the quantities we need it. I'm so puzzled as to what the thinking is behind this assertion. It would be great to have some steer as to where it fits within eg the alternative viewpoints sketched out in https://jwmason.org/slackwire/thirteen-questions-about-money/
27
I'm not getting at you Will (well, maybe a tiny bit) but my overriding impression of this thread so far is one of just how low people's expectations have sunk at this point, to a level of almost total resignation.
I think this is correct; my expectations are indeed very low. I'm 30 and have never voted in an election, of any sort, where my preferred outcome won until a few weeks ago at the locals. I am fucking sick of it and so am willing to vote for pretty much any Labour party at this point. I was fully behind the Corbyn project and I wish it had gone better but I've definitely become more cynical since its failure; I'm pretty resigned to the UK being a fairly right wing country at heart for the rest of my life; there are so many vested interests that make it so, and I'd like to live under a Labour government as much as possible.
28
« Last post by Will Hunt on Today at 10:08:09 am »
I don't disagree with any of that, Andy. I think you're right: I'm exasperated and my expectations are low. There's lots that I want to see a new government do to try and drag us out of the mire that the Conservatives have left us in. Political will is necessary but so is currency, which we don't yet have in the quantities we need it. That's why, for me, my priorities are economic stability, growth, and productivity (plus the environment [climate and energy] and housing, but we need the first bits to make the second bits happen - in fact they are interconnected). And I recognise that these issues are complex enough not to be turned around simply in a single parliament.
As you describe, we've been veering from one crisis to another since at least 2016 and so much of it hasn't been precipitated by external pressures but by the internal machinations of the Tory party. For those living in truly safe Labour seats, or the deepest blue, I can understand an intention to vote for a 3rd party, but for those who have the slimmest chance to unseat the Conservatives it seems crazy not to throw your weight behind whoever is best placed to beat them, most likely Labour.
To quote David Sedaris, writing about Trump Vs Clinton:
I think of being on an airplane. The flight attendant comes down the aisle with her food cart and, eventually, parks it beside my seat. "Can I interest you in the chicken?" she asks. "Or would you prefer the platter of shit with bits of broken glass in it?" To be undecided in this election is to pause for a moment and then ask how the chicken is cooked.
That's how I feel when I see people complaining that Keir Starmer isn't their perfect Prime Minister.
29
« Last post by Danny on Today at 09:45:04 am »
He seems a bit petulant TBQH. I'm sure Lattice are doing well, but it's not like they're a giant evil mega corp. Their only apparent sin looks to be marketing the shit out of their expensive bits of wood, while being opaque about precedent. Surely that's the game in the entire history of marketing sporting goods.
30
« Last post by 36chambers on Today at 09:31:32 am »
The account still works for me: https://www.instagram.com/c4hp/it could be that you blocked him at some point, you'll have to check your blocked accounts list. Otherwise, you should probably have been nicer to them in the past 
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