[Will Hunt]

Not sure if this has been done before but is there an "official" stance on this? I know that Creatine is used a lot but I'm not really sure what it does and whether it's deemed "legal" in the sporting world.
Possibly an interesting argument as aside from competitions you're not competing against anyone and drugs wouldn't give you an advantage over anyone/thing but the rock.
If someone could boulder V15/6 (whatever the highest grade is now, apols for not knowing) normally but broke new ground and did a V16/17 under the influence of steroids and the like would you deem it a true ascent? Would you go as far as to deem it aid?

[Munkii]

If someone could boulder V15/6 (whatever the highest grade is now, apols for not knowing) normally but broke new ground and did a V16/17 under the influence of steroids and the like would you deem it a true ascent?

no.

in my opinion climbing should be a natural thing and no enhancing drugs should be aloud.

the only person you are cheating is yourself.

[robertostallioni]

Anything you want to get off your chest, Will?

Kettle/smack,  smack/kettle.

[Bubba]

I know that Creatine is used a lot but I'm not really sure what it does and whether it's deemed "legal" in the sporting world.

Creatine is not a banned substance so it's totally legal.

[Paul B]

unfortunately i'm really busy so can't really write a long response.

I'm not quite sure that steroids would have the same effect in climbing as in sports such as sprinting and cycling (or maybe now come to think about it more towards the endurance side of things maybe?) as anyone who gets disproportionately strong compared to their fingers just gets injured, I think it'd just be a quick road to injury. This might not be the case though for old timers who have built up this strength and people looking to do a million moves in a row (Munkii?).
Sorry it's not better thought out, as I said. Busy.

Anybody else seen Bigger Faster Stronger?

[Munkii]

This might not be the case though for old timers who have built up this strength and people looking to do a million moves in a row (Munkii?).

im no old timer, im only 12.

and the pull up thread was only a bit of fun, but thanks anyway.

[lagerstarfish]

Personally, I don't mind what people do to themselves with drugs, as long as they don't become too much of a drain on everybody else (acquisitive crime, health care etc). If using different substances enhances an individuals enjoyment of bouldering, then I'm happy for them to do it - and if they feel happier lying to the rest of us about their substance use -that's fine with me too (as long as they don't wreck the rock for the rest of us).

I suppose that the closest we'll get to an "official" stance is what the guidebook writers, comercial media, advertisers and sponsors consider worth supporting.

[andy popp]

Performance detracting drugs are probably a bigger 'problem' in climbing.

[Bubba]

I'm pretty confident that there will have been many hard ascents done with some kind of "illegal" chemical assistance, whether it be at the time of the ascent or at some time during training previously to that.

Does anybody outside of competitions gets drug tested? Do any sponsor companies drug-test their sponsored climbers before using them to promote their products? I doubt it so I guess we'll never know who did what...

[robertostallioni]

Does anybody outside of competitions gets drug tested?

What do you mean Bubba? Do you mean do comp climbers get out of comp testing? It is my understanding that only those finishing in the top ten positions of internationals are subject to 'in comp' testing as a matter of course and have the same 'out of comp' testing procedures as any olymplic athletes, ie athletes whereabouts given in advance and the 'three strikes and out' formula....
If you mean non-competition climbers then, tested by whom?, on whose authority? for what purpose? Those with jobs that drug test such as the forces?

TOMMY?

[Zods Beard]

It intrigues me that climbing is one of the few sports where you can achieve a high 'profile' and all it entails, without undergoing any sort of drugs testing, if you didn't comp climb. Anyone agree or I am wildly off the mark?

[Bubba]

That's what I was alluding to really.

[lagerstarfish]

It intrigues me that climbing is one of the few sports where you can achieve a high 'profile' and all it entails, without undergoing any sort of drugs testing, if you didn't comp climb. Anyone agree or I am wildly off the mark?

That goes for all sports where one can achieve a high profile without necessarily taking part in competitions - that's "extreme" sports generally - steep skiing, skateboarding, surfing big waves... plus fishing of course.

This brings us back to the question - is it sport if there is no competition, or just a pastime?

[robertostallioni]

After the Olympics one of the doctors said something about smoking and the 100m sprint. How smoking a cigarette  5-10 minutes before the start, and the resulting vasodilation could easily give you 1/10th of a second. Chin-strokingly interesting in a climbing context.

[Zods Beard]

That's what I was alluding to really.

Ah yes, sorry!

That goes for all sports where one can achieve a high profile without necessarily taking part in competitions - that's "extreme" sports generally - steep skiing, skateboarding, surfing big waves... plus fishing of course.

This brings us back to the question - is it sport if there is no competition, or just a pastime?

I think there's pretty intense competition between climbers for routes, lines etc, but it's not the same as your 'normal' competition arena. I agree as well it's similar in other sports, with regards to never being tested, but the gains to be made in climbing by taking these drugs, I feel are greater than in other extreme sports. Sure, 'roids may make you a better skater,  surfer, whatever, but how much would they really help? Whereas in climbing, strength(and technique) plays such a big part. Plus I can't imagine there's many pro surfers, skaters who don't regularly enter comps, but in climbing you seem to be able to.

[miki]

Anybody else seen Bigger Faster Stronger?

i did, the intro is perfect. Rocky, Arnold references and other 80s icons.

i agree with Paul that steroids in climbing would mean injury, but maybe there are other drugs, psychological ones that help you "feel the force". 

the only person you are cheating is yourself.

i agree

[Paul B]

the only person you are cheating is yourself.

I think people with this view need to watch that documentary, it raises some pretty good points.

[Jaspersharpe]

Where can you get that film? Looks really interesting.

[Paul B]

Errr I'm not quite sure but it 'might' be readily available.

[DubDom]

This brings us back to the question - is it sport if there is no competition, or just a pastime?

"There are but three true sports--bullfighting, mountain climbing, and motor-racing. The rest are merely games."

Ernest Hemmingway

[Bubba]

i agree with Paul that steroids in climbing would mean injury, but maybe there are other drugs, psychological ones that help you "feel the force". 

I thought that steroids aided recovery from injury? Anyway, you can use such things in a milder form than some huge bodybuilder might do....and there's plenty of other drugs that would be great in climbing, from your humble amphetamines to human growth hormone and everything in between.

Anyone ever tried beta-blockers on a death route? I suspect they'd work a treat

[Paul B]

I think certain steroids do hence they're used a lot medicinally.

Its maybe naive to think Anabolics wouldn't work well within climbing as they work for nearly every other sport out there. What we need is a human test case, Dianabol anybody?

[Munkii]

the only person you are cheating is yourself.

I think people with this view need to watch that documentary, it raises some pretty good points.

i'm trying to lay my hands on it but so far with no luck.

[Falling Down]

Plus I can't imagine there's many pro surfers, skaters who don't regularly enter comps, but in climbing you seem to be able to.

There's loads of em. 'Free' skaters or surfers sponsored to the hilt and never go anywhere near competitions.  As for performance drug abuse, there have been a few cases of pro surfers getting banned for performance enhancing drug use, Neco Padaratz is probably the most famous case.

http://surfing.about.com/od/asktheguide/a/0715padaratz.htm

However, surfing is way behind even climbing as far as training and it's only recently that pro's have talked specifically about training for surfing performance.

Surfing is far far worse than climbing for recreational abuse though, the history of the sport is littered with many cases of promising careers brought to ruin through smack, coke and now meth which is rife in surf ghettos in Hawaii, Oz and the USA.  Many famous names funded their travel exploits in the 70's, 80's and 90's through hash, coke and heroin smuggling and it's still not uncommon to pick up a surfing mag and find out a relatively famous name has been busted or is going into rehab.

[jwi]

Anyone ever tried beta-blockers on a death route? I suspect they'd work a treat

I suspect weed is much better for such applications.  It is certainly wildly used, both by trad- and sport climbers. Judging from the wikipedia-article I gather that ß-blockers wreck havoc on your power-endurance.

The "climbing community" is also very forgiving about ascents clearly aided by THC.