[KH]

Without getting involved in the debate that has occurred here and more generally in another thread I was just wondering, are we going to get to see the pictures of Scott climbing The Ace?  Not because I want proof of the ascent, but because I like to spend my days at work looking at pictures of people climbing hard boulder problems!

I, and most on this board, would love to see pics/video of this being done.  I'm with JohnM, not for reasons of proof, but just to see the next superstar of british climbing crushing a classic boulder problem.

Scott, what's next on your projects list?  Best of luck whatever it may be.

[Bonjoy]

Saw this one on facebook. You need a new photographer Scott!
 

[dobbin]

And this explains why no spotter has come forward - there wasnt one!

[Drew]

And this explains why no spotter has come forward - there wasnt one!

Buggering Hell! He's a bold fucker too! I wouldn't look at it without at least two spotters!

[Falling Down]

I've got no axe to grind either way but I remember an almost identical brouhaha in pre-interweb days when John Gaskins first started ticking hard problems in the Peak and elsewhere and to a lesser extent when some strong youth from Dundee who hadn't been climbing long suddenly appeared from nowhere...

[GCW]

The truth will out

Why not give the benefit of the doubt to these ascents?  We'll know in time if someone is a BSer.  I have no problem taking Scott's word for the truth.  Probability is it's all true.
All the doubt does nothing but create bad feelings.  Proof is not available via the questions of doubters.
Why do we doubt other's achievements?  Jealousy?  Inadequacy?  I bet there's 1001 reasons.

Why not just accept these ascents?  There's no harm there.  If it's all shite, we'll find out later and put it down to experience.  but, does it hurt to have a little faith in our fellow boulderers every now and then?

[Jim]

Why not just accept these ascents?  There's no harm there.  If it's all shite, we'll find out later and put it down to experience.  but, does it hurt to have a little faith in our fellow boulderers every now and then?

Its because of experience that questions are being asked

[Carnage]

The truth will out

Why not give the benefit of the doubt to these ascents?  Why not just accept these ascents?  There's no harm there. 

I sent the Wheel of Life the other day after a few flying visits. I was on my own and its pretty low so I didn't need a spot. Your waddage is awaited........ 

[dave k]

Well done Scott- wow! Brilliant.

Probably a repeat of what has been said above but

It is clearly only due to the awesomeness of the ascent that so much doubt is being cast. If I was Scott I would still be sitting there (under neath my 45degree!) grinning like a Cheshire Cat . All the doubt and questions would just emphasise what an immense achievement I have done.

Most of us sit in the shadows of the elite and allow self doubt to prevent climbing anywhere near our potential. subconsciously most of us say -"If Ben M (substitute any elite name) can`t do it-struggled for years to do it, then what chance have I got." It takes youthful selfconfidence to step up to the mark and just do it. We are clearly all jealous of your rapid progress.

Now go out there, get sponsored (they might even lend you a video camera!) and milk the attention (its the only way). (Or you could go to uni and get a decent education!- Even as a teacher I would not recommend this for you right at this moment. Climbing is clearly in you genes).   

Don`t take the questioning personally. There is no-one on here who doesn`t want you this news to be a new historical milestone.

[dave]

Most of us sit in the shadows of the elite and allow self doubt to prevent climbing anywhere near our potential

I'm sorry but this is the most blatantly ridiculous statement i've ever heard.

[dave k]

Most of us sit in the shadows of the elite and allow self doubt to prevent climbing anywhere near our potential

I'm sorry but this is the most blatantly ridiculous statement i've ever heard.

So there isn`t a problem that you could/should have done much earlier/more quickly- but you either waited (in some case years) to have an attempt ("saving for the flash!").

It takes a different mind set to head out and flash 2 or 3 testpiece problems. Most of us would have a feel- believing that the problem will take hours/days/months to complete 

[Jaspersharpe]

No dave he's spot on. The only reason I'm not going out tomorrow to crush 8B in a session is the terrible self doubt I carry around with me that prevents me from reaching my potential. The countless hours spent worshipping at my shrine to the Schwaiger brothers have only enforced the knowledge that I am not fit to lick the onyx rubber on the soles of the elite.

It's got absolutely fuck all to do with not being strong enough. 

[dave]

So there isn`t a problem that you could/should have done much earlier/more quickly- but you either waited (in some case years) to have an attempt ("saving for the flash!").

this doesn't make any sense. even if i read between the lines and read what i think you meant to write, it still makes no sense.

it ain't youthful pluck and a "lets give it a go" attitude that get you flahsing 8a, its being fucking strong and an excellent all-round climber.

[Bonjoy]

The truth will out

Why not give the benefit of the doubt to these ascents?  We'll know in time if someone is a BSer.  I have no problem taking Scott's word for the truth.  Probability is it's all true.
All the doubt does nothing but create bad feelings.  Proof is not available via the questions of doubters.
Why do we doubt other's achievements?  Jealousy?  Inadequacy?  I bet there's 1001 reasons.

Why not just accept these ascents?  There's no harm there.  If it's all shite, we'll find out later and put it down to experience.  but, does it hurt to have a little faith in our fellow boulderers every now and then?

GCW
I’m sure you think you’re doing Scott a favour with this post, but to my mind it’s posts like this which polarises these debates and pushes people into unjustifiable and extreme positions. Please read the generic thread on claims/proof for some back ground. I’ve stayed out of this thread so far because I know bugger all either way about Scott or these ascents. But I do take issue with the way some people go about stuff on both sides.
The following reflects my general view on the claims/proof subject. My view on the Scotts ascents, is unresolved and irrelevant anyway.

The truth will out

Putting it in bold will not make it any more likely to happen. The evidence of he past would suggest that the truth doesn’t ‘out’. Doubts surface and remain. Nothing ever gets proved one way or another until something is owned up to or proof arrives. More often than not people who do stuff without witness or video either quit, or continue to operate in this manner. Please give me some past example of the ‘truth outing’ to back up the bold assertion.

Why not give the benefit of the doubt to these ascents?

The answer to this has been given in this and the other thread. Why not say why you disagree with these reasons rather than re-state a question that has already been answered?

 

We'll know in time if someone is a BSer.

See above.

I have no problem taking Scott's word for the truth.  Probability is it's all true.

Fair enough. Probably suggests even you are not 100% convinced, so why go on to suggest people are jealous or inadequate for asking questions? Are you jealous, inadequate too?

All the doubt does nothing but create bad feelings.

Bad feeling exists on all sides because of the doubt, but the doubt is inevitable in the circumstances. This is how it’s always been and why making huge claims with no back up is a sure fire way of precipitating this ill feeling. Regardless of whether  ascents are genuine or not I’m unimpressed with any climber who creates such a predictably predictable, easily avoidable shit-storms.

Proof is not available via the questions of doubters.

Proof is only available from the answers to the questions, i.e only Scott and/or spotters have any power to resolve the issue.

Why do we doubt other's achievements?  Jealousy?  Inadequacy?  I bet there's 1001 reasons.

There are several reasons, I don’t think jealousy and inadequacy are chief among these. Read the other thread and think. By insulting people who in the main are being polite, thoughtful and asking reasonable questions, you are likely to wind people up and push them from a position of general belief but with a hint of scepticism, into something more concrete and unsupportable. Insults polarise debates.

Why not just accept these ascents?  There's no harm there.  If it's all shite, we'll find out later and put it down to experience.

See above. Not everyone is as optimistic as you. When it comes to resolving issues and asking reasonable questions there is no better time than as soon after an event as possible. Both lies and unfounded doubt tend to solidify into accepted facts over time. I believe that the best outcome and the one that everyone wants to arise is for the ascents to become concrete verified, accepted ascents. The only time this can be done is now. If this doesn’t happen, the climber suffers and so does the historical record, that’s the potential harm. How will deferring the issue help?

  but, does it hurt to have a little faith in our fellow boulderers every now and then?

99.99% of ascents go unquestioned. Faith in one another is pretty universal all the time. It’s a rare circumstance that this is not so. Hugely historically significant ascents, by relative unknowns, with no back-up, are circumstances in the 0.01% where the climbing world will always ask for a little bit more.

[n_man]

Schwaiger brothers

Take Doylos advice: worship Jonny G with your Warton facing poster and you'll do much better.

[Jaspersharpe]

Seeing as I used to burn him off on a regular basis I feel I would be somewhat shortchanging myself with such worship. Oops! There's my lack of confidence in my own ability shining through again. Curse this low self esteem.

[dave k]

So there isn`t a problem that you could/should have done much earlier/more quickly- but you either waited (in some case years) to have an attempt ("saving for the flash!").

this doesn't make any sense. even if i read between the lines and read what i think you meant to write, it still makes no sense.

it ain't youthful pluck and a "lets give it a go" attitude that get you flahsing 8a, its being fucking strong and an excellent all-round climber.

Having re-read my comment it was rather overblown. (The sitting in the shadows bit!!!) I'll have another go.  Being "fucking strong and an excellent all-round climber" (In under 3 years-Clearly he can`t be unique in either regard, and I am sure he is yet to be an all round climber) is not always enough- if it was others would have flashed the joker and done the Ace in 3 hours. There could have been an element of luck (e.g. conditions)(particularly with a flash), but I still think that confidence (not the same as self esteem) has a role to play.  The ability to attempt something that has not been achieved before (assuming Scott knew a flash of Joker/single session Ace was unique), and not let that inhibit your performance is impressive.

Right I am off to try Mushin! Lets hope I can find a bit of youthful confidence!!
 

[Doylo]

Schwaiger brothers

Take Doylos advice: worship Jonny G with your Warton facing poster and you'll do much better.

[Jaspersharpe]

The ability to attempt something that has not been achieved before (assuming Scott knew a flash of Joker/single session Ace was unique), and not let that inhibit your performance is impressive.

I don't know about you but I know I never start trying something thinking "well this is x grade so it's going to take me x amount of time". I try to flash it, usually fail, then assess how close I am to doing it and work it / try it accordingly. This is the same now I'm crap as when I was good and trying to do things that "hadn't been achieved before". My flash attempt on Hubble ended at move 2 for example.  It doesn't matter what level you're at, why should your performance ever be inhibited by what other people have or haven't done? I really don't get what you're trying to say.

Right I am off to try Mushin! Lets hope I can find a bit of youthful confidence!!

Good luck with that. 

[lagerstarfish]

My flash attempt on Hubble ended at move 2 for example. 

You would have had a much better chance if you had tried it with the clips in place.

[SA Chris]

Yes, probably made it to move 3.