[Bonjoy]

 The point of redpointing is that there are no rules regarding how you work the route so long as the final ascent is clean. That has how it has always been. To suggest there is a right or wrong way to go about it is nonesense and missing the fundamental point.
 <Rant>As far as I'm concerned 8a.nu is just a cheesey little website and should have no bearing on real world climbing. Whether they say '2nd go' or '1st redpoint' or give you 2 points and a free lollypop has no relevance to anyone not playing the 8a.nu game (not to mention those people who use 8a.nu and take it with a pinch of salt). If people are actually bothered about their '8a score' it's not hard to see ways to raise it without working hard, like doing lots of minor link-ups on things you've already done, scouring the earth for soft touch, blah, blah, blah. Is this really the best way to enjoy climbing? </Rant>
 It's pretty pathetic if people are really tallying up short sessions and calling them single days! Jesus, how log is that?! A day/session is obviously a day or session in which something is tried. There is a very easy way to define the meanings of terms like 'first redpoint' and 'days on a route'. You look at the meanings of words in the phrase (use dictionary if needed), simple!

[Kingy]

Lets not lose sight of the fact that people classify the speed of their ascents for reasons other than 8a.nu points. To me, 1st RP has a certain amount of kudos on its own, without the need to record it in some stupid database. Just because somebody does something quick does not mean that they are after an extra 2 points for example. Maybe they will keep it to themselves and tell nobody.  

[Andy F]

1st redpoint does have some kudos, but only if you haven't top-roped it in a oner 15 times on the trot before you go for the redpoint. Personally I've never done a route in a oner on the top-rope before going on the sharp end. If you can top-rope it you should have been on the sharp end anyway.

[Kingy]

If you are going to go on toprope, for f*ck's sake grab the last draw before the belay to negate the ascent. I made this mistake on Mescalito years ago and the desire to do it properly on lead evaporated instantly. I think doing something cleanly on a topper actually impairs your performance on lead as the will to try hard is gone. I know somebody who did GBH 3 times on toprope one afternoon cos it was a bit wet at the end of the season...he never did it the next year despite repeated efforts.

[Bonjoy]

Doing stuff clean on a TR before the redpoint shows bad judgement, a debilitating fear of falling (get a grip!)or both

[Pantontino]

An old mate of mine used to regularly do 4 or 5 clean top ropes of a sport route before he would go for the redpoint. He just hated taking leader falls, and was incredibly fit.

[Doylo]

An old mate of mine used to regularly do 4 or 5 clean top ropes of a sport route before he would go for the redpoint. He just hated taking leader falls, and was incredibly fit.

was he from yorkshire by any chance

[Kingy]

Yeah only go on toprope once you know the moves when it is wet and there is a danger of you pinging off unpredictably.

That said, there are ppl out there who are naturally scared of leading - doesn't make u a bad person and these ppl should not be chastised for their yellow bellied-ness. I once spoke to Steve Roberts on the catwalk and we touched on the reason why he always went on TR. He said he nearly died in an horrendous fall in the Moelwyns in his twenties when all his gear ripped out. After that he could only bring himself to go on lead on hard routes after 5 clean TR's and extending all the draws to be in exactly his ideal position on the route. Its why he never lead Cry Freedom after TR'ing it 3 times.

[Bonjoy]

 Everyone is a scared of falling to a greater or lesser extent. Reliance on pre-toproping only serves to re-enforce the fear. I can understand why extreme cases might give into the temptation to stay in the comfort zone, but most people don't have the hideous accident excuse to fall back on.
 That said I have no beef with top-roping as pre-redpoint practice. On some stuff it's the most efficient way to work the moves e.g. on shortish vertical routes and in those cases I'd do it too. For me it's all about what gets me up to redpoint standard quickest. Sometimes TR'ing will speed up the process, sometimes it will slow it down.

[Andy F]

Yeah only go on toprope once you know the moves when it is wet and there is a danger of you pinging off unpredictably.

That said, there are ppl out there who are naturally scared of leading - doesn't make u a bad person and these ppl should not be chastised for their yellow bellied-ness. I once spoke to Steve Roberts on the catwalk and we touched on the reason why he always went on TR. He said he nearly died in an horrendous fall in the Moelwyns in his twenties when all his gear ripped out. After that he could only bring himself to go on lead on hard routes after 5 clean TR's and extending all the draws to be in exactly his ideal position on the route. Its why he never lead Cry Freedom after TR'ing it 3 times.

Not to mention decking off White Heat at Pemroke years after the Moelwyns accident.

[Ru]

To me, "2nd go" means on your second time tying on you do a clean redpoint. Ie, one failed onsight/ flash attempt, dog to the top to put the rest of the draws in, lower off, send on your next try.

"First redpoint" means just that, the first time you attempt a lead from the floor with any hope of getting to the top (that's not a flash/onsight). Fairly meaningless in a way as you can have dogged it to death for weeks before hand.

[Kingy]

I've got a horrible feeling '2nd go' was invented by 8a.nu to cover both boulder problem and route ascents as they couldn't be bothered to have separate input screens for boulder problems and routes. You obviously can't do a boulder problem '1st redpoint' so some bright spark decided to scratch 1st redpoint for routes and use '2nd go' for both routes and boulder probs. I think the confusion between the two terms is as simple as that and that this explains why the terms in their true sense should be interchangeable. I think that since '2nd go' has caught on for routes, ppl have forgotten what 1st redpoint used to mean and have started to use it in the sense of 'first attemped lead'. I certainly can't remember anybody using 2nd go a few years back before 8a.nu became popular. I reckon it was dreamt up by Bjorn. I blame him!!!

[Paz]

Personally I've never done a route in a oner on the top-rope before going on the sharp end.

I did one by accident the other day when I didn't mean to.  The shame nearly destroyed me.