[andy popp]

Going  back to what Bonjoy said I can't believe there should be any resistance to re-equipping Boo, the Ogre etc. This wouldn't lead to wholesale retroing of established trad routes. The sport and trad have co-existed happily at Chee Tor for years. For what its worth the bolts on Boobs should be fine. I (think I) did a good job on this.

[Houdini]

Just to chip in here but when re-bolting occurs do people over-drill allowing room to knock the old expansion bolt flush against the rock?

I despise the sight of threaded bar poking out, it's unacceptable.

[Bonjoy]

 Yes. That's a pet hate of mine too. It takes little extra effort to drill the added 3cm.

[Bonjoy]

As i've moved the original post to a new thread here's a copy of El Mocho's post (I don't know how to split posts but leave original post in place):

Good effort Graham, I keep thinking about going to clean routes down there but never get round to it. The last two times I have been down the things I tried were pretty bad (Autobahn - got up it by the skin of my teeth, and Midnight Summer Dream - failed) I did give M S D a clean afterwards so I think it is a climbable state now (the top was wet and dirty so I didn't climb that bit after cleaning)

I think the state of insitu gear is even more of an issue down in Pembroke and Cornwall as there is often a similar reliance on fixed gear which rots even quicker.

Maybe we need to start a cleaned/re-equiped thread:

Opium (great zawn, Bosi) is now clean(ish) and the pegs not replaced but unnecessary as they are easy to back up.

West face route (just to the L) pegs are stainless so in good condition and easy to back up (so maybe they should be taken out??)

[Percy B]

Just to chip in here but when re-bolting occurs do people over-drill allowing room to knock the old expansion bolt flush against the rock?

I despise the sight of threaded bar poking out, it's unacceptable.

Note to re-equippers - if the previous bolter has done this and you can't knock the bolts in, its pretty straight forward to snap the studs off by knocking them back and forth with a hammer until they break. They should break off flush with the rock leaving nothing sticking out. Most of the old bolts I've come across recently should probably snap off pretty easy (possibly just by hanging on them?!?!)
For the full service, take a spot of resin (presuming that you're replacing the old bolts with glue-ins) and fill the old hole to provide an 'invisible mend'!

I rarely venture onto Peak Lime until its become totally necessary, but I am constantly horrified by what I find. I belayed Sam on PUTP at the Tor the other day, and noticed that the lower-off is a single 1980's issue ring bolt. The route has new glue-ins, but the belay has not been replaced... which begs the question, WHY? Nobody should risk death lowering off one of the more famous routes at the Peaks 'premier' sport climbing cliff just because the lower-off failed! Its crazy.

As I mentioned before, I don't climb on Peak lime very much but next time I go out I will take a drill, and big brush and some new bolts to do my bit to improve the situation. My theory is that if you try a route and you notice that the in-situ gear is shit or the route is dirty, you should sort it out so that the next people to try it have a better experience. If a few more people did this, we wouldn't have a huge number of amazingly good routes reverting back to a filthy state 'cos nobody can climb them. I know that many posters on UKB already do sterling work fixing routes back up again, and maybe I'd be better off ranting at the people on UKC, but then again I wouldn't want to unleash a thousand drill wielding UKC'ers into the Peak to sort re-equipping out....could be a recipe for disaster!

[dave]

Perc, the cockfax database has this on PUTP posted by Clemmow when he rebolted it:

New Resin Bolts. However the same old lower off
remains as the rock at the top is a large hollow
sheald! <sp!>

Since he knows what he's doing with bolting and probably placed about 300 new bolts in requipping virtually the whole crag I would recon he left that loweroff for a reason.

[Bonjoy]

Best way to get around that is to drill very deep holes, say 250mm, and resin fix a cut sections of 12mm stainless threaded bar, which can then take a hangers. I did this on a couple of routes at LTQ rather than have to place the finishing belays lower than the climbing warranted.

[Percy B]

The Clemmonator certainly knows how to replace bolts - of that there is no doubt, and he has done amazing work re-equipping Peak limestone. However, if the rock at the top of a route is suspect, why didn't he (or anybody else aware of this) re-position the lower-off in some good rock somewhere else? (eg: lower down on the route? The top bit is a formality anyway after the meat of the route below...) My point is that if you climb to the top of this route, currently your options are to down climb it and lower off the second bolt, or to trust a 30 year old ring bolt in a piece of rock that is known to be dodgy! I'm sure Sam would have been delighted to know what he was lowering off from when he stripped his draws out of the route the other day  
At the very least the lower-off should be taken out so that a nasty accident doesn't occur - if the bolt doesn't break, it sounds like it might stay in the large piece of rock that falls off the crag and smashes your skull in....

Does anybody have any thoughts on a position of a new belay?

[T_B]

FYI

I cleaned Tequila last weekend. It just needed a brush and the grass pulling out of it. Though the start might need a bit more attention as I wasn't entirely sure where the holds were

Planning the same treatment for Golden Mile.

Tom B

[Gareth Parry]

What sort of state is the ogre in?

[Johnny Brown]

Looked like ten minutes with a brush would sort it out. No idea how good the bolts are, sorry.

[Bonjoy]

 I think it is still sporting the original ring bolts.

[Gareth Parry]

Any idea if its dry at the moment?

[Johnny Brown]

Looked bone dry last week. Chee tor doesn't really seep like the cornice etc.

[Paz]

Climbers are constantly told to leave crag vegetaion untouched, so it's no wonder Chee Tor looks so green. Perhaps guides should encourage people to remove veg from routes they do

 

I've just been ignoring the guidebooks and the conservationists on that issue recently and ripping out every bit of Valerian, Ivy and Brambles that I come across that I can on route.  Otherwise down here we're just going to lose the crags.  We're a fickle lot.  Climbers really are that influenced by what they see, and the appearnaces of a route - they were getting put off a semi-classic E2 by a particularly flowery bit, even though that bit's about VS, on bomber nuts and you've got an Eco bolt to go for.  If they don't know that then you cna hardly blame them. 

I can identify the nationally rare stuff and leave it be, so if it's unidentifiable I only rip it out if it's clogging up an essential hold or gear placement.  It maybe takes 10 or 20 minutes extra per pitch.