[andy_e]

Nice rant there fiend! I agree with you there that people going slowly is fricking annoying, and not only that but it can cause road rage and can cause some people to do stupid things which can cause accidents etc.
What really gets my goat is people who pull out on to a main road and don't fucking accelerate, then act surprised when people already establisahed on the road crash in to the back of them. Wankers 

I also agree with GCW- people not paying attention when manoeuvering - pay attention! Like people pulling out on the motorway when you're going faster than they are, either causing you to brake (dangerous) or change lanes suddenly (more dangerous)! I find lorry drivers the worst for this, struggling up hills (no offence bubba  )

[GCW]

Andi makes some good points.  Personally, I think that someone doing 40 in a 60 zone is just as dangerous as someone doing 70 in a 60 zone, if done with due care and attention.
Yeah, some truck drivers take advantage of the size of their vehicle.  However, I find that truck drivers are the ones that say thanks when you let them out etc.  And the ones that sit side by side to stop the cocks trying to queue jump at contraflows etc.

Speed is measurable, and hence it's punishable.  It also happens to bring in a LOT of cash for HMG.   

[Paul B]

I also agree with GCW- people not paying attention when manoeuvering - pay attention! Like people pulling out on the motorway when you're going faster than they are, either causing you to brake (dangerous) or change lanes suddenly (more dangerous)! I find lorry drivers the worst for this, struggling up hills (no offence bubba  )

Yeah, however i'd like to add to this that nobody is perfect, I for one have made miscalculations and I bet the same can be said for everybody else. On 5th gear once I heard that one in every 200 driving decisions made is a bad one, by the time you've been driving a good few years just think how many decisions that is!
(this thread was located here as I thought it was probably just me being dappy, sorry oh fiendish one)

[andy_e]

At the moment, I'd say my ratio was 1 in 50, but that's because I'm inexperienced...

[GCW]

I think everyone that applies for a car license should be made to ride a bike for a year.  It would really improve attention for manoeuvres.  And those that were crap at it would be weeded out

[Paul B]

This is a regular point of discussion between friends and myself. I'd absoloutely love a bike, performance per pound is just ridiculous but its just far too risky. Coming up past the chequers sometime last year (perhaps) a fiat multipla pulled out far too late causing us to slam on the brakes, that was annoying. Same car carried on up the road and on a short bit of straight indicated left and slowed down... I moved out to overtake as it was clear and there was clearly no road turning left. The car then threw on right hand lock and attempted to do a u-turn in front of me, we stopped so close I had to reverse to get around the b*gger. That ruined that set of tyres, on a bike it would have been game over.

[GCW]

Bikes aren't dangerous.

It's the dicks in the cars that are.

[andy_e]

a fiat multipla pulled out far too late causing us to slam on the brakes, that was annoying. Same car carried on up the road and on a short bit of straight indicated left and slowed down... I moved out to overtake as it was clear and there was clearly no road turning left. The car then threw on right hand lock and attempted to do a u-turn in front of me, we stopped so close I had to reverse to get around the b*gger. That ruined that set of tyres, on a bike it would have been game over.

Fucking twat! Driving without due care and attention. Hope you gave them the Vs for that one. It's exactly that reason why I had a crash this time last year.

[dave]

to be honest I can kinda see where they're coming from with the limit on the froggatt road, although I think 40 would have been a lot more sensible, i mean its not a fucking houseing estate it is? the only place anyone ever crosses the road there is at the chequers.

The thing that really pisses me off in the peak is people who for example tootle along on the stoney road from tideswell in the national speed limit bit (soon to be 50 once all the binbags blow off) doing say 40mph on the straights, so you're stuck behind them, then you get to stoney where its a 30 limit so being a good driver you slow to 30 to observe the quite sensible limit, whilst watching in disbelief as the prat in front continues on oblivious at 40. And you know they won't get done for it.

[Fiend]

The thing that really pisses me off in the peak is people who for example tootle along on the stoney road from tideswell in the national speed limit bit (soon to be 50 once all the binbags blow off) doing say 40mph on the straights, so you're stuck behind them, then you get to stoney where its a 30 limit so being a good driver you slow to 30 to observe the quite sensible limit, whilst watching in disbelief as the prat in front continues on oblivious at 40. And you know they won't get done for it.

Cunts, total cunts, should be deported to some 4th world island that doesn't have any motorised vehicles at all as they can't be trusted to be on the same landmass as a car let alone driving one, that or being turned into pet food to feed cats and dogs who would probably know more about appropriate speed limits than these so-called human beings you're so correctly calling up. What kind of utter CRETINISM does it take to think that driving at 40 on long straights in the national fucking speed limit and then driving at the same 40 speed through a town, somehow miraculously ignoring speed limit sign that say "30" on them and the tell-tale clues of buildings and pedestrians makes any kind of driving sense, I honestly don't know.

I agree the Chequers warranted something doing to it - and agree with 40, just covering from the sharp bend at the bottom until the next bend above the Chequers straight would have been more than adequate.

[fatkid2000]

Some of the posts above have some good points in. I think the reason why people often end up not driving at the speed limit is because they have no idea what it is. There is often no correlation between the type of road and the speed limit, often the speed limit changes when you cross a county border. In towns one moment the limits 40 the next 30 and the road appears the same type.

[GCW]

Personally, I stick to speed limits in towns/villages.  Other, more open roads/motorways I am less vigilant.
The number of roads where there's a 50 limit for no (apparent) reason is amazing.  You can see why so many people feel speed cameras are purely for cash.
Another problem is that speed limits haven't been changed since they came in, thus motorway limits stay at 70 when today's cars are capable of higher speeds.  This ignores the fuel consumption argument of course.
Whatever limits are set, there will always be someone that ain't happy with them 

[Jaspersharpe]

Another problem is that speed limits haven't been changed since they came in, thus motorway limits stay at 70 when today's cars are capable of higher speeds. 

More importantly today's cars are capable of shorter stopping distances from higher speeds. I mean 70 has been in place for time and when you think of the improvements (ABS etc) in stopping technology it looks like it used to be way too high and is now too low!

[tlr]

Everybody's favourite petrolhead, Clarkson, tested this some time ago I seem to recall. I think that he took a car from the time when the 70mph limit was introduced and a modern car and brake tested it from 70 to 0 mph. The modern car stopped in less than 1/2 the distance of the older car, and in a much safer, straighter fashion.

The machines aren't really the issue though unfortunately, the users are.

I was gutted when the Froggatt Hill speed limit was reduced. Getting a lovely clear flowing run up that late at night was excellent fun.

[dave]

I saw a similar test on stopping distances for modern cars. most stopped within 1/3 to 1/2 of the distance - the only modern car they could find that took anything like the full distance to stop was a landrover discovery - anyother good reason that people shoulnd't be using these to drive little Tarquin 300yards to prep school.

I don't know how true this is, but theres an anecdote that states the current speed limits came about when the E-type jag was produced because it was way faster than anything else - hence the speed limit and stopping distances we use today date back to the performance of cars in the early 60s. I would have thought they could at least up the limit on motorways to at least 80mph, since thats what most people drive at anyway, and i doubt it would be any less safe.

[SA Chris]

I think the due speed limits for good / shitty weather in france are the way to go. I am usually happy to do 80 on a motorway in dry conditions, but rarely go much over 70 if the motorway is wet and/or the visibility anything less than good.

[jfw]

if you assume perception/reaction time of 1.5 seconds

80mph gives reaction distance of 54m

cf

70mph reaction distance of 46m

So 22 feet difference.

I think prosecution for speeding allows for a 10% error on speed indications (3mph at 30mph) (7mph at 70mph)

If the speed limit is set at 80mph - this takes the tolerance up to 88mph

Just under 60m reaction distance!

another point to make is that not everyone has a modern/well maintained car.

[Jaspersharpe]

I think the due speed limits for good / shitty weather in france are the way to go. I am usually happy to do 80 on a motorway in dry conditions, but rarely go much over 70 if the motorway is wet and/or the visibility anything less than good.

 

[Stubbs]

I don't know how true this is, but theres an anecdote that states the current speed limits came about when the E-type jag was produced because it was way faster than anything else - hence the speed limit and stopping distances we use today date back to the performance of cars in the early 60s. I would have thought they could at least up the limit on motorways to at least 80mph, since thats what most people drive at anyway, and i doubt it would be any less safe.

Twas an AC Cobra being tested on the M1 http://www.speedlimit.org.uk/faq.html#SEVENTY but I agree

[Johnny Brown]

I think prosecution for speeding allows for a 10% error on speed indications (3mph at 30mph) (7mph at 70mph)

Usual margin for prosecution outside 'zero tolerance' zones is 10% + 3, ie 36+ in a 30 zone, 47+ in a a 40, 80+ in a 70. I don't think its to allow for measurement error, all equipment used for prosecution is calibrated regularly and is capable of high precision, its just to give the driver a bit of leeway.

[jfw]

hey yeah i didn't mean for their calibrated equipment - i meant for the speedo in your car (variations with tyre pressures/tolerances etc)

[dave]

yeah the supposed figure of 10% +3mph is for the legal variation in speedos - i.e. don't think you're safe doing 35 through a 30 camera at cos you could actually be doing 41.5mph! Also, i've heard vaious claims these days of people being done doing well inside those margins, thus the 5-0 were not allowing that margin anymore in all cases, so don't rely on it.

[SA Chris]

legal variation in speedos

Sloper in a swimming trunks?

(Sorry to create that image, it's one that will haunt me to my grave).

[Paul B]

yeah the supposed figure of 10% +3mph is for the legal variation in speedos - i.e. don't think you're safe doing 35 through a 30 camera at cos you could actually be doing 41.5mph! Also, i've heard vaious claims these days of people being done doing well inside those margins, thus the 5-0 were not allowing that margin anymore in all cases, so don't rely on it.

I think all speedo's have to be optimistic so I can't see how that could be the case.

[andy_e]

I think the 10% + 3 varies between constabularies, and I think Greater Manchester are one of the most lenient.