[al]

'Later I went to meet Johnny Dawes, the greatest climber of his generation, at the Dinorwig Quarry workings. He started climbing at the age of fourteen, when he was known as the 'leaping boy'........'The whole approach has to be fluid,' Johnny explained 'It's not so much a question of standing on things as moving across the face of it and using one hold to sort of propel yourself on to the next.'........Unbelievably, Johnny Dawes not only got on to that limpet, splayed, friction-based hold, he could use it as a platform for another swing, via more minimally existent nodules, straight on and up the slithery face.'

an extract from the book of the tv show 'Mountain'

[Johnny Brown]

Nice prose there.

[Bubba]

Although why say things like "the greatest climber of his generation", it's just stupid.

[al]

Although why say things like "the greatest climber of his generation", it's just stupid.

just a handy strapline for a tv show, they always mis-represent stuff - having said that I'd agree, if he could share the title with jerry (which I doubt)

[grimer]

That's a funny thought, the pair of them fighting for space on a small podium, trying to wrestle the award of the other, Johnny looking really flustered and puffed up...

[Bubba]

Perhaps "best gritstone climber"... would be more apt

[Idol eyes]

Indian Face vs Masters Wall ? Nuff Said...

[Johnny Brown]

Here here. Ulysses protracted headpoint vs total onsight?

[Bubba]

I was thinking more along the lines of other disciplines such as sport climbing / alpine climbing / mountaineering. I think there's a danger of the general public interpreting such comments to mean that they are the best climber in all areas, and might even have climbed Everest

[Stubbs]

hmmm Evolution vs The Quarryman or Indian Face? ! Thriller vs The Design Award 

I guess it's hard to compare when you move away from trad.  Was good to see Johnny on that Mountain program.

[Jim]

genius, a Johnny vs Jerry debate

[Johnny Brown]

hmmm Evolution vs Indian Face?

...and Indian face wins. First E9 in the world, and still 'unjustifiable' for the only man to have climbed E11, vs a sport climb ten years off the pace. Question?

[GCW]

I see your point Bubba.
But he's done most stuff.
Trad, we all know.  Peak, Wales (1st on sight 1st ascent of E7?)
Sport- a couple of minor routes in Wales
Winter- Winter ascent of Burbage HVSs (see BFA)
Plus services to fashion.

Hardline at Brownstones vs Kaluza Klein.  C'mon, you know it makes sense  

[Somebody's Fool]

hmmm Evolution vs Indian Face?

...and Indian face wins. First E9 in the world, and still 'unjustifiable' for the only man to have climbed E11, vs a sport climb ten years off the pace. Question?

I suspect that's why he's changed it to Quarryman.  However, Marcus Bock thought Evolution 8c+, thereby making it a mere 5(?) years off the pace.

[Bubba]

Plus services to fashion.

Hmmm tweed jackets and baggy trousers. Not exactly Alexander McQueen is he

[Johnny Brown]

hmmm Evolution vs The Quarryman?

Understandable edit there, but you'd still be better comparing Evolution to The very big and the very small, which wins again. 8b+ and the hardest slate route and slab route at the country, vs not even the hardest route at the crag?

[Bubba]

Al, why did you have to start the Johnny vs Jerry debate

[GCW]

Hmmm tweed jackets and baggy trousers. Not exactly Alexander McQueen is he

I was thinking more about the floppy hat and nice tights when he does Sentinel Crack on Best Forgotten Art.  Qualitee.
Although Jerry definitely wins with his packet pants at Tom's roof in One Summer.
Bratwurst anyone?

[dave]

how many people have repeated evolution compared to indian face?

[Johnny Brown]

Al, why did you have to start the Johnny vs Jerry debate lol

C'mon Bubba, you started it by questioning what everyone else thought was a perfectly reasonable statement.

[Johnny Brown]

I have to say it seems a poor testament to Jerry that Evolution is being bandied about as the most significant of his career, but then I suppose he just didn't churn out the iconic classics like Johnny did.

[GCW]

I agree, all down to you Bubba.  You could fix it by adding a poll to this thread.  

Gonads was quite hard.

[Stubbs]

Apologies for editting my post (and then reediting it so your post made sense)  I was looking for a sport route comparison for Johnny, I guess I should have gone for Liquid Amber rather then evolution, but I guess Jerry was still a couple of years behind some german guy.  Can Jerry win for bouldering? 

[dave]

to his credit jerry did knock out some well badass classic benchmark shit in his time:

Ulysses, messiah, masters edge, renegade master, little plum, verbal abuse (still one of the hardest limestone trad routes in the peak?), samson, evolution, revelations, powerband, sean's roof, ace, joker, dominator, liquid amber, jerry's roof, and not to overlook declaring the cromlech an "easy and outdated crag". Come to think of it jerry shoudl win on quoteability alone. "we went to the lakes and i was the best", "theres only 3 people who could hang those holds, me, myself and I", "it feels really good to burn someone off", "your foot sticks, you hit the top, its just a great great buzz", "even the fucking lottery can't buy you that" I could go on.

[Ru]

And for Jerry...

Liquid Amber, probably 8c+, which would make it the first one in the world for the second time, Revelations also having the same claim 6 years earlier.
Flashing the hardest route in France with Chimpanzodrome in '84
Repeating the 3 hardest routes in Europe (Minimum, Spectre, La Rage) within 6 months of coming back from a 2 year lay off, then repeating the 3 hardest routes in America a couple of months later, then going to Germany and doing the first 8b+ there - in today's terms a bit like doing La Rambla, Realization, La Novena Enmienda, Lex Luthor, Dreamtime, and for arguments sake, the Fly, in a few months then adding another 9a+ in another country.
The only person (ever?) to win world cups and climb (maybe) the hardest route in the world in the same year 1989/1990.
Soloing all the routes on the Cromlech in an afternoon or something.