[saltbeef]

quite possibly.
but its still wrong!

[GCW]

Are you saying you shouldn't train open-handed or have I misunderstood?

[saltbeef]

you misunderstand.
to get strong at a specific hand position you need to train that particular hand position. if you only train ope handed you'll get better at openhanding but the crossover will be minimal to crimping, there is a different emphasis on different muscles, i can't remember quite which. so train crimp, half crimp and open handed/dragging. emphasise what you feel you're weakest on.

[GCW]

Yeah, we agree on that.  Interpreted your comment wrong- sorry.
Back on topic......

[Serpico]

I think Nibs is referencing the jollypower website, where in the full crimp the thumb is wrapped over the first finger. This stops you developing as much position specific strength as you could do because of the assistance from the thumb in stopping the fingers from straightening.
Apologies to Nibs if that's not what you're talking about at all.

[Paul B]

Ok, but does this not help develop some thumb strength? and is therefore useful for that position? i'm sure it must, I crimp like that all the time and my thumbs are beastly 

[saltbeef]

who's for a thumb war?!
anyway serpico how do you crimp without the thumb? (genuine question)

[Monolith]

I've met a genetic freak before who can actually use his thumb as an active crimping finger rather than just a bracing one. Astounding.

[Serpico]

who's for a thumb war?!
anyway serpico how do you crimp without the thumb? (genuine question)

I think that was what was implicit in Nibs' post; that a full crimp includes the thumb. A crimp with no thumb is what people normally refer to as a half crimp: middle joint at 90deg.

[Serpico]

Ok, but does this not help develop some thumb strength? and is therefore useful for that position? i'm sure it must, I crimp like that all the time and my thumbs are beastly 

I wondered about this and figured that thumbs were so much stronger than fingers anyway that it wasn't a big deal.

[slackline]

I've met a genetic freak before who can actually use his thumb as an active crimping finger rather than just a bracing one. Astounding.

Did they look like the girl in white in this picture?



Uma Thurman in "Even Cowgirl's get the Blues"

[Paul B]

Ok, but does this not help develop some thumb strength? and is therefore useful for that position? i'm sure it must, I crimp like that all the time and my thumbs are beastly 

I wondered about this and figured that thumbs were so much stronger than fingers anyway that it wasn't a big deal.

Maybe although a quick sceintific test at the tor (read dicking about in the heat doing the warm up trav thumbs only) showed thumb strength to be greater in the filthy crimpers than in the open handers.

[Johnny Brown]

where this open hand trains crimp strength bull shit comes from i don't know.

Its on the Moon site here:

Grips and exercises
There are three main types of grip to train when using a fingerboard (see campus article grips). I recommend, however, that you pay particular attention to working your open hand strength. It is the weakest position for most climbers and possibly the most important. It’s worth noting that improving open hand strength will also make you strong in the crimped position but not the other way around.

[saltbeef]

gospel then.

[GCW]

gospel then.

11.  Thou shalt train open handeth

[lagerstarfish]

I've met a genetic freak before who can actually use his thumb as an active crimping finger rather than just a bracing one. Astounding.

The Brat?
Or are there more of them out there?

[account_inactive]

where this open hand trains crimp strength bull shit comes from i don't know.

Its on the Moon site here:

Grips and exercises
There are three main types of grip to train when using a fingerboard (see campus article grips). I recommend, however, that you pay particular attention to working your open hand strength. It is the weakest position for most climbers and possibly the most important. It's worth noting that improving open hand strength will also make you strong in the crimped position but not the other way around.

I asked Rich about this on the forum as there is not scientific evidence to prove this, and plenty to disprove it.  Rich basically said " I climb 9a and it works for me blah blah blah you're wrong" So that settles that then.

Like the beef says train the grip you want to get strong. 

I don't think this is what Nibile was talking about though

[Jim]

I think crimping should be banned

[lagerstarfish]

Due to various old injuries, I struggle with crimping (and so haven't really been doing any for the last 15 years). I used to be able to do it and can remember that there were times when it was easier to crimp certain holds than to open hand. Now though, I can only hang from crimps for less than a quarter of the time that I can hang open handed from the same holds.
I am 4 weeks into a deadhanging routine to improve finger strength and have included half-crimped hangs. Crimps are already getting easier and less painfull.
On crimps (no thumb) - I started on 2x8 secs (really struggled and hurt a bit) and am now feeling good on 5x10 secs and my joints feel good the next day.
I'm pretty sure that this just would not have happened if I only trained open handed.
 

[richdraws]

I believe if you are not a naturally thin climber then you must train the full crimp to allow your body to become accustomed to the forces going through your bones and connective tissues. I would imagine that you can increase your potential for crimp strength doing the open handed training but it may be dangerous if you apply forces the a joint angle you are not comfortable with. Surely if you cannot use it in a safe training environment then it would be hazardous to throw it in the mix at the crag with less perfect conditions.

[Nibile]

yes, i was referring to jollypower, as incredibly guessed.
wad point comin'.

[tommytwotone]

Word, only just clicked on this link, did this used to be the Jerry Pro Tips? Now it's a vid about Iraq or something...

Anyone got a link that works for the Jerry vid? I remember it from the dim and distant past and wouldn't mind seeing it again.

Cheers.

[dave]

no link but i've got the jerry protip on the machine at home as a .mov . well jackson.

[Jim]

the jerry protip is shit. 90% of it is Jerry off his head on speed or something, jibbering on about not very much

[dave]

exactly.