[Pantontino]

Don't tell Nodder and Ug, they'll be furious!!!!

http://www.northwalesbouldering.com/index.asp

[Jim]

Photo's!

[Pantontino]

Photos: soon - I took some colour slides, although it was quite dark. Will probably have to go back for some decent images, which is no bad thing because I get to try the arete and Hockstack has a cool looking project that he fell off the last move a few times on the same day.

There is also an amazing project line on the Made in Heaven boulder that Ding Dong came close to a few years back. Then there's the Fred Nicole Roof project which remains untouched (might need Gaskins for that one).

[oddy]

Ranton,

I knew I shouldn't have mentioned anything about that line to Herr Kratz...  Forever more, I'll refer to that line as 'Loose Lips Sink Ships!'

PS.  How could choose the cover-art of 'The Argument' as yr avatar?  Stand that album next to 'In On The Killtaker' or 'Red Medicine' and it begins to look real small (rather like when I stand next to you).

P

[oddy]

And another thing:  how do u feel about the use of blowtorches at Porth Ysgo?

I've been there countless times - in all weathers, even when it's been extremely windy and cold.  I've yet to see the Fred Nicole Roof in condition.  It's a shame, the boulder in question is just too close to the water line  (it spends most of it's time underwater).

You'll need more than Gaskins, youth!  You'll need a 100 ton crane to move the boulder to the top of the hill!

If that ever gets an ascent without recourse to a blowtorch... I will buy u 10 pints!

[Johnny Brown]

Is the Fred Nicole roof the one under the big yellow boulder with the classic crack?

If so Ben did a fairly low start to it last weekend... although not the full roof the moves across the lip are pretty hard. Has it been done before?? Should have some pics soon...

As for blowtorches... no, never. Heating and cooling to that degree rapidly destroys the rock - the holds will fall apart eventually. Just look at roadrunner...

[AndyR]

As for blowtorches... no, never. Heating and cooling to that degree rapidly destroys the rock - the holds will fall apart eventually. Just look at roadrunner...

Without wishing to get into another blowtorch 'discussion', this depends whether you're actually heating up the rock, or drying-off surface moisture. It also depends on the mineralogy of the rock (e.g presence of clay or hydrated minerals, or material that thermally decomposes).

Sometimes it will damage the rock, sometimes it won't.

[oddy]

No Strong Girl.  What you describe is not the FNR.  The full monty has yet to be realized on this lump.  Dave Nodder (and perhaps Ug?) has played on this: but no cigar.  You're talking about the thinner of the two cracks - on the right?  Sorry, don't know the name.

The FNR is spotted easily at low tide.  If you go further than the P Ysgo crack - but don't go as far as Jawbreaker - then walk towards the sea.  Mooch around a bit and you'll find it.  It faces left if you face the sea. The FNR is of a really black gabbro.  The texture is sorta smooth and shiny, and it's grossly overhanging - a proper roof - obviously massive moves diagonally left once you pull on.

I'd never advocate using a blowtorch for whatever reason except perhaps for smoking crack.

It was a flippant question really.  I just doubt that those holds on that piece of rock would dry out naturally inbetween tides.  I mean there's water between rocks at your feet.  It's a really dark, dank zone.  Encrusted with molluscs.

Like I said, 10 pints to it's conqueror, on the house!

[oddy]

Oh I forgot!

The Kratz mentioned this line to Fred Nicole when they met in the states...  apparently he was less than interested...  

Don't blame him really!  I've never liked the look of that line at all - which is largely irrelevant as it's too fucking hard anyway!

Ug's made for it, like.

No!

Ug's MAD for it, like!

Hang on!

Ug's MADE for it too.  It'd take a real brute to sort that thing out.  There!  It's decided:  Ug's gonna do it.  Ask Ug, he knows.

[a dense loner]

ug couldn't finish his tea. his he still earning stupid money or his he back?

[Johnny Brown]

Without wishing to get into another blowtorch 'discussion', this depends whether you're actually heating up the rock, or drying-off surface moisture.

 
let's face it - if you're blasting it with a flame, its gonna heat up. If you're just drying off surface moisture; then use a towel.

Sure hydrated minerals will speed decomposition, but the simple differential expansion caused by repeated local heating and cooling will cause damage soon enough on its own, even on volcanics.

Okay I know where the FNR roof is too. Question still is though, has Ben's prob been done before? Start in the cave below the ysgo crack on an obvious pointy undercut - out to the lip and along, then up the wall with a big rock. We're talking V9ish I think. The top bit was known as leeds scallies for a while...

[Pantontino]

...but has since been known as 'Lip Flip' - another Stinky Pete/Throbbins classic.

After talking to a few people, I reckon what Ben has done is a first ascent. Katz thought Will Perrin might have done it, but Nodder told me tonight whilst we were sat in the Fat Cat, in an old school Llandudno stylee, post Split Inf/Parisella's (Nodder and Johnny boy also went to Angel bay), that him and Will had tried the line, but no fat triumphant cigar was lit.

So, bravo to young Bransby - he got himself a big tick at a big crag in a little country 'n' all that. (I also tipped him off last night about another project line that Hockstack had come close on, so maybe he will be back for more red hot primo action!!!!)

PS - the right to left roof crackline, linking into the start of the Ysgo Crack is also a project, and Ding Dong's project on the Made in Heaven boulder is still waiting...

[Pantontino]

Oddy - my passion for the music of Fugazi ran at fever levels when I first saw them live at the Manchester Boardwalk in the late 80s (the first 12"s and Repeater are awesome, but thereafter I thought they disappeared to where the sun don't shine and jazz noodling is somehow cool.)
The Argument was (IMO) a return to former glories and I wear it's badge with pride.

I had intended to change my avatar every week to reflect what I was listening to, but I guess I'm too lazy for that (thus far, I've only changed it twice: Husker Du - New Day Rising and Gorilla Biscuits - Start Today). Shame, I think everybody should do the same.

As for the FNR - I've seen it dry loads of times. It is actually only affected by high tide. In comparison to some of Gaskins' South Lakes test pieces it looks quite do-able. I'm not aware of anybody seriously trying it - might be only (ha,ha!) V12/13 or summat?

[AndyR]

 
let's face it - if you're blasting it with a flame, its gonna heat up. If you're just drying off surface moisture; then use a towel.

Sure hydrated minerals will speed decomposition, but the simple differential expansion caused by repeated local heating and cooling will cause damage soon enough on its own, even on volcanics.

To be honest, you're probably right in most cases, as people will always blow-torch the hold for too long, 'just to make sure it's really dry' - but a quick wave with a blow-torch (or hot-air gun) to get rid of surface moisture (where a towel won't get it off - on irregular surfaces etc.), really won't cause any significant heating of the rock, and therefore won't be a problem.

In practise, it's probably not a good idea to use them (though hot-air guns would be better), as they'll get over-used, or used in the wrong places, and will cause a problem - but to simply say they will always cause a problem is BAD SCIENCE, and we don't want that on here do we :wink:

[dave]

In practise, it's probably not a good idea to use them ...., as they'll get over-used, or used in the wrong places, and will cause a problem

theres a coincidence - just like wirebrushes!!!

[AndyR]

In practise, it's probably not a good idea to use them ...., as they'll get over-used, or used in the wrong places, and will cause a problem

theres a coincidence - just like wirebrushes!!!

Touche

Wish I'd never replied :?

[dave]

you love it really.

[Bonjoy]

Have thought about the hot-air gun option before, but have been unable to find a cordless model on the internet.

[oddy]

FNR only affected by high tide?  I wanna argue:  Low-mid!

Hey, UG's cooked me tea many a time...  He's got a large wingspan, which looks kinda crucial for the FNR.  It has lovely holds on it.  Holds to put your whole hand on; there just far apart.  

So far, UG's the only guy I know who's shown a consistent interest in having a play.  He's in Oman not back in 'beris.  Shame, Porth's nice this time of year...

Must say, I like what's going on now - boulderers moving boulders.  ie. Kratzs' arete and LoLo (somehow it just doesn't look easier!) at Porth; Gnasher's landing at the Sheep Pen (couldn't have happened to a better problem).  I'd love to dig out the Barrel and have it turfed.

Roadside Face - JackHammers at dawn!

It doesn't bother me that people choose to crowbar stones at Porth.  The ocean moves the stones everyday.  Sometimes Popcorn Party is a lie-down start, sometimes a crouch.  

Si, your span's way better than UG's.  That's it!  The FNR's your project for the winter!  You don't need John Gaskins.

(Fugazi - You mean u don't rate Steady Diet of Nothing?  Coming out after Reater, it blew my mind.  So different yet 100% Fugazi with not a step wrong.  That ain't Jazz, man.  Repeater was directly responsible for my truancy and ultimate expulsion from 6th Form.)

[Johnny Brown]

people will always blow-torch the hold for too long, 'just to make sure it's really dry' - but a quick wave with a blow-torch (or hot-air gun) to get rid of surface moisture (where a towel won't get it off - on irregular surfaces etc.), really won't cause any significant heating of the rock, and therefore won't be a problem.

theres a coincidence - just like wirebrushes!!!

Good analogy dave - yeah its possible to use either without damage but its far easier to unknowingly cause damage. I'm not convinced anyone would use a blowtorch just for irregular surfaces. They're usually used on persistent weeps where the idea is to heat the rock and drive out the moisture - defo a recipe for disaster.

Just spend a bit longer with towel, chalk and brush and you'll get there in the end. Just as wirebrushing is rarely required if you're not too lazy to put the effort in with the wood brush.

[AndyR]

Have thought about the hot-air gun option before, but have been unable to find a cordless model on the internet.

Check this out

Would be ideal for you peak boys with your dinky walk-ins.

[AndyR]

Just spend a bit longer with towel, chalk and brush and you'll get there in the end. Just as wirebrushing is rarely required if you're not too lazy to put the effort in with the wood brush.

Thanks for that Johnny - now I know what to do.

I'm also having trouble with moss in my lawn - can you give me some sage advice there as well please?

[SA Chris]

Have thought about the hot-air gun option before, but have been unable to find a cordless model on the internet.

I know this sounds a bit obvious, but how about a gas operated hair dryer?

[Big Frank]

As for blowtorches... no, never. Heating and cooling to that degree rapidly destroys the rock - the holds will fall apart eventually. Just look at roadrunner...

Without wishing to get into another blowtorch 'discussion', this depends whether you're actually heating up the rock, or drying-off surface moisture. It also depends on the mineralogy of the rock (e.g presence of clay or hydrated minerals, or material that thermally decomposes).

Sometimes it will damage the rock, sometimes it won't.

Isn't that the same tedious argument used for wire brushing?

[Johnny Brown]

I'm also having trouble with moss in my lawn - can you give me some sage advice there as well please?

Regular scarification is the only way here. You must remember perseverance is the key - judging by your speed on the draw with that blowtorch I guess that is the true root of your current problem.