Signatories needed by BMC members for resolutions at the 2024 AGM

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Simon Lee

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Summary: A petition to include resolutions at the 2024 BMC AGM to disclose withheld financial information and set GB Climbing up as an independent subsidiary. Petition link here: https://chng.it/WRLdt7wGJ2 2

Background: The BMC is expected to make a record loss of more than £300k in 2023. Most of that loss has arisen from subsidising the growth of GB Climbing and covering its overspending. GB Climbing has been loss-making for years and now those losses have ballooned.

In order to help protect the BMC from the increasing financial, legal and reputational risks presented by GB Climbing I believe that GB Climbing should be set up as a separate independent subsidiary of the BMC.

This arrangement would mean that GB Climbing is still part of the BMC but the BMC is better safeguarded from the risks. It would also place ownership for strategic, operational and financial decisions squarely with the subsidiary Board of GB Climbing in a more transparent and accountable way. Importantly, GB Climbing would then have the discipline of needing to work within the constraints of its own bank account. Furthermore, the demands, culture and character of elite competition climbing are at odds with the rest of what the BMC does so it makes sense that it is managed separately by a Board that understands and is excited by the sport.

Having GB Climbing as an independent subsidiary of the BMC is not a new idea. It was a key recommendation of the 2017 Organizational Review Report. However, the Board overturned that recommendation four years ago and instead set up a new oversight body (the CCPG). The CCPG has failed in every respect in meeting its responsibilities* and the competitions community has published an open letter of complaint**.

Finally, the BMC has not been open and transparent about the costs of GB Climbing and how grant funding has been allocated even when it has been repeatedly requested. Withholding this sort of information from the membership and the culture of secrecy that currently pervades the BMC needs setting straight and is addressed in the second proposed resolution.

Therefore, I am seeking support for the following resolutions to be included in the upcoming 2024 AGM.

The Resolutions:

1.The Board is required to publicly disclose a full and detailed breakdown of the finances for GB Climbing for the financial years 2022 and 2023 and its budget for 2024 within 6 weeks of this AGM and is urged to be more open and transparent in its affairs and more responsive with specific requests for information

2. The Board is required to set up GB Climbing as a financially independent body that is no longer subsidised by the BMC. It would also be desirable if the Board made any subsidy, loan or bailout to this new body subject to a reserved matter that is included in the articles.


Because neither of these resolutions require article changes, they will be presented as ordinary resolutions which require 50% of voting members to pass it (as opposed to 75% if classed as a special resolution).

For these resolutions to be included in the AGM there is a requirement for it to be supported by 0.5% of the BMC membership (i.e. about 450 BMC members).

To register your support for the inclusion of these resolutions please can you add your name publicly to this petition. Please note, you must be a British Mountaineering Council (BMC) member to sign this petition.

Thank you.

Simon Lee

* https://www.thebmc.co.uk/media/files/CCPGReview2022FinalReport_v1_b.pdf 1

**https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2023/09/open_letter_gb_climbing_athletes+parents_cite_loss_of_confidence_in_leadership-73446
 
Hi Simon

I’m a BMC member and am not against your idea here. However my only concern is that it might be possible in the future to completely separate (sell off?) GB Climbing from the BMC and therefore the BMC would no longer have control (and also the ability to represent) competition climbing. I generally feel more comfortable with the idea that all facets of climbing should be represented and governed by one body. There are many reasons for this but mainly I just think it gives the BMC more clout and also it means that the worlds of competition climbing and climbing in general stay connected.

Dave
 
Do you need to be a “full” member or would it include people who are members via CC membership?
 
I would consider signing subject to a couple of caveats.

1. I don't like the phrase "and is urged to be more open and transparent in its affairs and more responsive with specific requests for information." It's actually meaningless ('urging' the BMC has no force if passed) and "more responsive with specific requests for information" is too broad and open to abuse.

2. Can you clarify what is meant by "It would also be desirable if the Board made any subsidy, loan or bailout to this new body subject to a reserved matter that is included in the articles"? Again, "it is desirable" is meaningless, so if you want this, why not change to "the Board shall"?
 
I thought the same as Stu on those two wordings. But I signed as I agree with the main thrust of the 2 points.

But the petition would be better and more focussed on what's most important, if you removed from points 1 & 2 the two sentences Stu highlights and moved them to a paragraph below.

Alternatively ditch those supplementary requests lest they leave wiggle room, and stick to the important basics.
 
Davo said:
Hi Simon

I’m a BMC member and am not against your idea here. However my only concern is that it might be possible in the future to completely separate (sell off?) GB Climbing from the BMC and therefore the BMC would no longer have control (and also the ability to represent) competition climbing. I generally feel more comfortable with the idea that all facets of climbing should be represented and governed by one body. There are many reasons for this but mainly I just think it gives the BMC more clout and also it means that the worlds of competition climbing and climbing in general stay connected.In summary the BMC doesn't have the capacity, structure and dexterity to keep the whole show together in a capable way IMO.

Dave

I can see that argument but the BMC has proven itself over stretched in trying to control and understand GBC. Given the Board is composed of people with backgrounds which aren't comp climbing world this perhaps isn't surprising. At the current run rate of losses the BMC is likely to be looking at assets to sell off unless major cuts are made. Grant funding can be cut at short notice too. The risks aren't just finance. Anorexia/RedS in athletes is a current elephant in the room along with other issues shared with comp sports.
 
Stu Littlefair said:
I would consider signing subject to a couple of caveats.

1. I don't like the phrase "and is urged to be more open and transparent in its affairs and more responsive with specific requests for information." It's actually meaningless ('urging' the BMC has no force if passed) and "more responsive with specific requests for information" is too broad and open to abuse.

Yes the first part is specific. The second is just a rebuke and reminder.

2. Can you clarify what is meant by "It would also be desirable if the Board made any subsidy, loan or bailout to this new body subject to a reserved matter that is included in the articles"? Again, "it is desirable" is meaningless, so if you want this, why not change to "the Board shall"?

I'd love to but that would require a change of articles (ie the insertion of a reserved matter clause) which in turn would require it to be a special rather than ordinary resolution and therefore a 75% majority rather 50% majority which is too much of an ask. Assuming the resolution gets carried and the subsid is set up then if the Board didn't get the hint about the reserved matter there's always the option to pitch in again at the 2025 AGM via Members Council or with member support for a special resolution of this type.
 
Further to feedback on BMC Watch and ukc I've set up two further petitions for those who want to separately support one of the two resolutions.

Here are the links:

BMC Resolution: Disclosure of finances for GB Climbing

https://chng.it/DztL4x2KyV

BMC Resolution: Set GB Climbing up as a separate subsidiary:

https://chng.it/XPMn2xybGF
 
shark said:
Davo said:
Hi Simon

I’m a BMC member and am not against your idea here. However my only concern is that it might be possible in the future to completely separate (sell off?) GB Climbing from the BMC and therefore the BMC would no longer have control (and also the ability to represent) competition climbing. I generally feel more comfortable with the idea that all facets of climbing should be represented and governed by one body. There are many reasons for this but mainly I just think it gives the BMC more clout and also it means that the worlds of competition climbing and climbing in general stay connected.In summary the BMC doesn't have the capacity, structure and dexterity to keep the whole show together in a capable way IMO.

Dave

I can see that argument but the BMC has proven itself over stretched in trying to control and understand GBC. Given the Board is composed of people with backgrounds which aren't comp climbing world this perhaps isn't surprising. At the current run rate of losses the BMC is likely to be looking at assets to sell off unless major cuts are made. Grant funding can be cut at short notice too. The risks aren't just finance. Anorexia/RedS in athletes is a current elephant in the room along with other issues shared with comp sports.

Thanks for the reply Simon. I haven’t got anything to counter your concerns above and I suspect it is a case of which is the least bad option.
 
Is there the option to sign one but not the other? I absolutely want the BMC to be more transparent but I don't want it to make GB Climbing a more independent subsidiary.
 
Whilst I appreciate the concerns about the BMC finances and all the problems that have been going on with GB climbing I don't see why we would want to create a situation where competition climbing was EVEN more poorly funded.

I get it that most BMC members are outdoor climbers, and until recent years (now having an 11 year old comp daughter who is climbing stuff I can't -a couple of v8s outdoor on the grit last season when she was 10) I didn't have interest in it either. But in recent years I have taken an interest and do like to see Brits like Shauna a few years back and Toby more recently doing well. And also enjoy following the news of X GB althletes like Will, Aidan and Buster, who arguably wouldn't be crushing as hard had it not been for the structure provided during their youth comp GB years.

How can the Germans, French, Swiss, Austrians, Americans and Japanese fund their national squads so well - most fully funded, where as GB althletes are having to self fund most of their training, coaching and travel?

Maybe this idea of separation of GB will somehow bring about a different funding mechanism for GB climbing, but I expect not.
 
dave k said:
Whilst I appreciate the concerns about the BMC finances and all the problems that have been going on with GB climbing I don't see why we would want to create a situation where competition climbing was EVEN more poorly funded.

I don’t think you do. The current state of finances is critical. I don’t know if the reserves policy minimum will be hit for the end of the financial year or not but if not it will be a close miss. GBC is haemorrhaging the BMC’s cash. That’s not my adjective but that of an involved insider. The BMC is spending close to or possibly exceed £1m. Saying it is poorly funded is ludicrous. Saying it is misallocated then you have my attention.

I get it that most BMC members are outdoor climbers, and until recent years (now having an 11 year old comp daughter who is climbing stuff I can't -a couple of v8s outdoor on the grit last season when she was 10) I didn't have interest in it either. But in recent years I have taken an interest and do like to see Brits like Shauna a few years back and Toby more recently doing well. And also enjoy following the news of X GB althletes like Will, Aidan and Buster, who arguably wouldn't be crushing as hard had it not been for the structure provided during their youth comp GB years.

The dad of one of the cited has been repeatedly reported as saying their offspring’s achievements have been despite of, not because of, the BMC

How can the Germans, French, Swiss, Austrians, Americans and Japanese fund their national squads so well - most fully funded, where as GB althletes are having to self fund most of their training, coaching and travel?

I don’t know. You tell me

Maybe this idea of separation of GB will somehow bring about a different funding mechanism for GB climbing, but I expect not.

Living within their means? Spending where it has most effect? We can but dream
 
dave k said:
Whilst I appreciate the concerns about the BMC finances and all the problems that have been going on with GB climbing I don't see why we would want to create a situation where competition climbing was EVEN more poorly funded.

Think it through. GBC. Current = crap*, costs a fortune. Worst case outcome: still crap, costs way less.

Unlikely to be worst case though, but even the above worst case would be an improvement compared to current status.


dave k said:
How can the Germans, French, Swiss, Austrians, Americans and Japanese fund their national squads so well - most fully funded, where as GB althletes are having to self fund most of their training, coaching and travel?

You're making an argument for financial transparency and GBC department accountability. Which is what Shark is pursuing. So you should sign at least part 1 of the petition.


* cover-all word for brevity, I know it isn't all bad
 
I’ve signed for better financial transparency. I’m afraid I remain unconvinced that separating GB Climbing from the BMC is the best option for us as climbers and mountaineers in general.
I do take the concerns raised here seriously and could be convinced if there was something in the set up of a separate GB Climbing that ensured it was always under the auspices of the BMC.

Dave
 
I’ve signed. Whilst I’m in the ‘meh’ category wrt the BMC in general, financial transparency and discussing the changes to GB climbing etc.. strike me as being important.
 
Davo said:
I’ve signed for better financial transparency. I’m afraid I remain unconvinced that separating GB Climbing from the BMC is the best option for us as climbers and mountaineers in general.
I do take the concerns raised here seriously and could be convinced if there was something in the set up of a separate GB Climbing that ensured it was always under the auspices of the BMC.

Dave

Good.

A decision was made on GB Climbing in the organisational change after the ORG review and discussing the wisdom of that is now academic. In practical terms, of what next: quite a few people over the last few years have discussed with Simon why setting up a separate entity for GB Climbing would now be costly, disruptive and slow (probably starting around summer 2025 earliest, as it requires Articles changes with a supermajority). It also wouldn't remove overall BMC financial liability and I think it would weaken governance (currently it is under the main BMC system where Local Areas and Council still have significant formal influence under the BMC Artcles).

The first motion shouldn't be needed, as the the BMC Board should have ensured it was done it already and pressure has been on them for a while now. We almost got there last autumn. Adding pressure from the wider membership now, on transparency of GB Climbing spending, can only help hurry the Board up.

Part of the bigger problem is not enough experienced people volunteer to help the BMC on governance. We often struggle to fill Local Area officer posts. Council has some long standing vacancies. AGM attendance barely meets quorate levels. I also feel sorry for staff and key volunteer post holders who have done good and important jobs under significant pressure for quite a few years now (and don't forget when critics take pot shots at individuals, those below Board level simply don't have a right of reply).
 


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