[r-man]

Ondra onsighted 8a+ and redpointed 8c at 11. Two years later he climbed 9a.

Ashima just flashed 8b+, aged 11.

[tim palmer]

Ondra onsighted 8a+ and redpointed 8c at 11. Two years later he climbed 9a.

Ashima just flashed 8b+, aged 11.

to state the blindingly obvious, that is not a good comparison

[shark]

to state the blindingly obvious, that is not a good comparison

WTF are you on about?

No latin please

[tim palmer]

to state the blindingly obvious, that is not a good comparison

WTF are you on about?

No latin please

First of all, the differences in physical maturation between the genders at that age are enormous.  Besides the gender gap the differnce between two individuals of that age are often vast, so much so to compare two people of the same gender at the same crag is probably still a bit dodgy, let alone on different sides of the world.

With those variables I don't think it is a good comparison.    That is WTF i was on about; all this means is she is an incredible climber.   Who knows with all the money swilling around american climbing stars maybe she will be climbing 9b in two years, but surely katie brown would be a better comparison who is from the same area?

[shark]

to state the blindingly obvious, that is not a good comparison

WTF are you on about?

No latin please

First of all, the differences in physical maturation between the genders at that age are enormous.  Besides the gender gap the differnce between two individuals of that age are often vast, so much so to compare two people of the same gender at the same crag is probably still a bit dodgy, let alone on different sides of the world.

With those variables I don't think it is a good comparison.    That is WTF i was on about; all this means is she is an incredible climber.

Maturation, schmaturation. Gender, schmender.

With a comparable early track record to Ondra I predict that she goes on to achieve as much.

Caveat lector.

[tim palmer]

Maturation, schmaturation. Gender, schmender.

With a comparable early track record to Ondra I predict that she goes on to achieve as much.

Caveat lector.

How is it comparable?
Not that I know a huge amount about her but it would appear her climbing career thus far has been bouldering, ondras was comp and routes predominantly. 
They climb in different areas on different routes, they are of a different height and gender.
The only thing they have in common is they are both very very very good young climbers.

[shark]

Maturation, schmaturation. Gender, schmender.

With a comparable early track record to Ondra I predict that she goes on to achieve as much.

Caveat lector.

How is it comparable?
Not that I know a huge amount about her but it would appear her climbing career thus far has been bouldering, ondras was comp and routes predominantly. 
They climb in different areas on different routes, they are of a different height and gender.
The only thing they have in common is they are both very very very good young climbers.

Grading is universal and not alterered by height, weight, gender, age or star sign.

Her 8b+ flash even factoring in a bit of Red Rock grade/onsightability softness I would say is at least equivalent grade-for-style to Ondra's Euro 8a+ onsight.

Obv we are not dealing with exactitude but in my view her achievements at this age puts her potential in the same ball park as Ondra which is hugely exciting if she goes on to realise what is clearly outstanding potential.

Ashimawad thread anyone?

[cowboyhat]

I'm losing the will to live reading this 'debate' so if you do pin a thread about her can it be a new one please.

[shark]

Ashimawad thread anyone?

There already was one. 

Now merged.

Call that a thread? 

[csl]

http://www.dpmclimbing.com/articles/view/ashima-sends-southern-smoke-514c

Ashima 8c+

[El Mocho]

to state the blindingly obvious, that is not a good comparison

 

This is pretty 

it is obviously much easier because of her small fingers.

[Fiend]

We need an r-man style chart predicting her grade increase over the years, culminating in what she will be climbing by the time she is Ondra's current age 

[andy popp]

The other channel are reporting she's done Southern Smoke 8c+! What I hadn't realized is that the two 8b+'s she sent earlier in the week were her first at the grade. That's some progression.

[shark]

it is obviously much easier because of her small fingers.

The secret is her pudding bowl fringe - it's a strong look

[r-man]

Amazing!

[Doylo]

Ridiculous progression!

[SA Chris]

it is obviously much easier because of her small fingers.

The secret is her pudding bowl fringe - it's a strong look

Off to the barbers for me. Actually I don't even think a barber would be able to do much. Gene therapy maybe.

[andy popp]

7th day on she's done Lucifer, 8c+

[El Mocho]

wow.

It will be interesting to see the progression she makes and what happens to climbing as a whole. Obviously these kids (Ondra, Oddo, Ashima etc) are super talented but for an 11 year old kid to be this world class (is the hardest grade a woman has climbed 9a still?) is amazing.

Ondra managed to achieve these sort of things (although not quite so close to the world limit) when he was a similar age and has managed to continue improving and finding inspiration so far (up to the ripe old age of 18?) and also to avoid any bad injuries. It would be great if Ashima can have a similar progression and in both cases (Adam has done this to a degree) to move away from pure sport climbing and bouldering into bigger stuff.

Also I don't know whether these 'kids' are super talents (obviously yes they are) who would have been world class no matter when they took up climbing, whether it is almost essential to start very young nowadays or whether we are going to see more and more school kids being cutting edge. In climbing - and obviously endurance climbing especially -  weight can play a big role in how hard you climb, maybe in 5 years time it will be a 12 year old who does the worlds first 10a whilst Ondra etc watch on whilst talking about how they are past it at 20!

(not wanting to come across negative on Ashima, quite the opposite - when I was 11 and going climbing I was nowhere near this level either in a physical sense or in a mental sense. It is flabbergasting she is climbing so hard and judging by the speed she has climbed 8c+ (and 7th day on) she could undoubtedly go much harder)

Now I'm just going to get May and put her on the finger board, she's 6 now she should be doing 7as.

[Doylo]

Ondra wasn't quite world class when he was 13, Ashima is at 11. She must be the best sport climber/ boulderer combined. Can't think of another female who's climbed 8c+ AND Font 8b. Climbing really has gone crazy!

[petejh]

Ondra wasn't quite world class when he was 13, Ashima is at 11. She must be the best sport climber/ boulderer combined. Can't think of another female who's climbed 8c+ AND Font 8b. Climbing really has gone crazy!

I think it's more that climbing has become increasingly mainstream and we're seeing the sort of athletic families and kids that, twenty years ago, might not have been attracted to climbing as it was back then. Now that sport climbing is the most poplar genre worldwide, kids can excel at climbing and make clear progress to the top by mastering the physical aspects of the sport, without having to go anywhere near the danger/head game aspects of climbing (relatively speaking). I'd be interested to hear what sort of background Ashima has. Imagining a sporting/gymnastics/athletics/goal-oriented family background, rather than the stereotypical kid getting into climbing twenty years ago i.e. not good at other sports / bit of an 'outdoors' geek. Although that pudding bowl suggests I might be wrong 

[Stubbs]

I'd be interested to hear what sort of background Ashima has. Imagining a sporting/gymnastics/athletics/goal-oriented family background, rather than the stereotypical kid getting into climbing twenty years ago i.e. not good at other sports / bit of an 'outdoors' geek. Although that pudding bowl suggests I might be wrong 

Her dad is a choreographer who didn't know climbing a sport... http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/13/sports/ashima-shiraishi-11-conquers-difficult-bouldering-climbs.html?pagewanted=all

[ghisino]

to put some blah blah in context it would be interesting to know what kind of daily sport practice she is involved in.

some textbook theory says that too early specialization and urge for performance can lead to excellent youth results that are not necessairly predictive of adult-age ones.

the mechanism being that if the coach focuses too much on early performances 2 bad things can happen:
a)the young athlete's mind and body are not respected and will enter a crisis later on (à la jennifer capriati)
b)the focus will be put on rapidly-achievable qualities (eg, specific endurance) somehow at the expense of long-term ones that are best developed at an early age (motor and mental skills, "athlete's lifestyle and ethic", ect...)


that said ondra (and his parents) probably focused on the bigger picture and still had excellent results...

[r-man]

Campus boards and fingerboards, load of old fashioned rubbish. The future...

[petejh]

Good article, nice to read a well-written piece about about climbing from an 'outsiders' point of view.