[Hydraulic Man]

Seems to be a bit of trouble at the Mill....

https://tinyurl.com/nhehdet3

https://rachelelnaugh.com/inner-sanctum

[spidermonkey09]

First link doesn't seem to work?

[Bonjoy]

Yes, this has been on the access radar for a while. Doesn't look great.

[Carliios]

God damn hippies

[shark]

Land purchased doesn’t include the crags (Ravensdale, X etc) which are owned by Natural England as far as I can see. How will it affect climbers?

[remus]

First link doesn't seem to work?

Trying swapping cragx for c r e s s b r o o o k (removing the spaces). The forum software auto replaces the text.

[spidermonkey09]

Thanks Remus!

[spidermonkey09]

Can someone who knows a bit more flesh this out? From my reading, it looks like a group of slightly mad eco hippies who want to build an eco community; so far so good. But in doing so they're undertaking illegal groundworks and ignoring stop notices from the NP which is obviously not good.

What happens next? If they ignore the stop notice will they effectively just continue all works until they eventually end up in court?

Edit: The Buxton Advertiser seems a bit less concerned: https://www.buxtonadvertiser.co.uk/news/environment/community-farm-plans-for-peak-district-site-3736642

Is it possible they are simply well meaning hippies who believe in some weird stuff? I'm sort of missing the big smoking gun that says they're planning to totally fuck the land, other than ignoring the stop notices and not getting the relevant permissions which obviously isn't great?

[Carliios]

Can someone who knows a bit more flesh this out? From my reading, it looks like a group of slightly mad eco hippies who want to build an eco community; so far so good. But in doing so they're undertaking illegal groundworks and ignoring stop notices from the NP which is obviously not good.

What happens next? If they ignore the stop notice will they effectively just continue all works until they eventually end up in court?

Seems that way and if they have enough funding they may just be able to swat away any fines that come their way.

[Will Hunt]

Some pretty hefty designations they're contravening there. Hopefully the authorities get them in court quick sharp.

If anyone wants to see what an absolute madhead Rachel Elnaugh is then just trip over to her Youtube channel. But be careful of dissonance in the grid and holograms injected into your arms by the Nuremburg Nurses:

[Carliios]

Some pretty hefty designations they're contravening there. Hopefully the authorities get them in court quick sharp.

If anyone wants to see what an absolute madhead Rachel Elnaugh is then just trip over to her Youtube channel. But be careful of dissonance in the grid and holograms injected into your arms by the Nuremburg Nurses:

Christ almighty she is absolutely mad. As soon as I heard the word manifesting it was a done deal. I also hope the courts shut them down ASAP.

[Johnny Brown]

I nearly posted this earlier but decided it was better on the DL until we'd (BMC access reps) made contact.

Land purchased doesn’t include the crags (Ravensdale, X etc) which are owned by Natural England as far as I can see. How will it affect climbers?

No, it includes Crag X.

https://twitter.com/LynnCroweSHU/status/1553500983828807680?s=20&t=lgc9xqeHaGjaz0lmi5K_EQ

Comments from her youtube channel:

paul mitchell 1 month ago
Hi Rachel. Climbers have visited and loved those crags and trees for  60 or 70 years. I trust they will find no opposition from your  community. You may wish to to talk to the British Mountaineering Council about your intentions for the dale.

Rachel Elnaugh 1 month ago
We come in Peace

Rachel Elnaugh 1 month ago

We are aware that the 7.5acres of forest to the South of the Ravensdale paddock is classified as SSSI.

We are indeed in touch with Natural England ~  and we have also asked them to confirm whether the trespass on that land (by locals, rock climbers and tourists ~ who have dismantled part of the wall to gain access) should continue to be allowed.

[Bonjoy]

Doesn't sound much like 'we come in peace'! I suspect the top of the wall was dismantled and taken for some random's garden wall. Rock climbers rarely struggled to get over 2 foot high walls.

[Wellsy]

Tricky font 4 mantle maybe

[Will Hunt]

Doesn't she know that climbers are Sovereign Citizens who are not subject to trivialities such as so-called "trespass"?

[shark]

I nearly posted this earlier but decided it was better on the DL until we'd (BMC access reps) made contact.

Land purchased doesn’t include the crags (Ravensdale, X etc) which are owned by Natural England as far as I can see. How will it affect climbers?

No, it includes Crag X.

https://twitter.com/LynnCroweSHU/status/1553500983828807680?s=20&t=lgc9xqeHaGjaz0lmi5K_EQ

Comments from her youtube channel:

paul mitchell 1 month ago
Hi Rachel. Climbers have visited and loved those crags and trees for  60 or 70 years. I trust they will find no opposition from your  community. You may wish to to talk to the British Mountaineering Council about your intentions for the dale.

Rachel Elnaugh 1 month ago
We come in Peace

Rachel Elnaugh 1 month ago

We are aware that the 7.5acres of forest to the South of the Ravensdale paddock is classified as SSSI.

We are indeed in touch with Natural England ~  and we have also asked them to confirm whether the trespass on that land (by locals, rock climbers and tourists ~ who have dismantled part of the wall to gain access) should continue to be allowed.

Oh shit. I thought Natural England where the landowners but I guess they were just managing the Dale on behalf of the landowners.

Nice work by Paul Mitchell wading in there 

[Carliios]

All we need is for the people of cragx to erect a number of 5G masts nearby and that’ll scare them off

[mrjonathanr]

Although we have acquired all c70 acres, we negotiated to pay the consideration over a two year period.  Therefore 50% of the freehold is still available if you would like to be involved.  Please email Rachel [at] rachelelnaugh [dot] com with cragx in your email title for more information.

Obviously referencing real place name, not Cragx

[webbo]

I nearly posted this earlier but decided it was better on the DL until we'd (BMC access reps) made contact.

Land purchased doesn’t include the crags (Ravensdale, X etc) which are owned by Natural England as far as I can see. How will it affect climbers?

No, it includes Crag X.

https://twitter.com/LynnCroweSHU/status/1553500983828807680?s=20&t=lgc9xqeHaGjaz0lmi5K_EQ

Comments from her youtube channel:

paul mitchell 1 month ago
Hi Rachel. Climbers have visited and loved those crags and trees for  60 or 70 years. I trust they will find no opposition from your  community. You may wish to to talk to the British Mountaineering Council about your intentions for the dale.

Rachel Elnaugh 1 month ago
We come in Peace

Rachel Elnaugh 1 month ago

We are aware that the 7.5acres of forest to the South of the Ravensdale paddock is classified as SSSI.

We are indeed in touch with Natural England ~  and we have also asked them to confirm whether the trespass on that land (by locals, rock climbers and tourists ~ who have dismantled part of the wall to gain access) should continue to be allowed.

Oh shit. I thought Natural England where the landowners but I guess they were just managing the Dale on behalf of the landowners.

Nice work by Paul Mitchell wading in there 

Mitch is probably a member given his beliefs about 5g causing covid. He’s a regular  flat earther these days.

[crzylgs]

Had a brief look at that website... What I really want to know is who on earth is paying her £250 a pop for 'business mentoring'?

Also, we could really use a friendly billionaire benefactor within the rock climbing community who could snap up places like this and protect them for the rest of time under a conservation charity of sorts. Don't suppose anyone would have such a connection? 

[SA Chris]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/jason-momoa-rock-climbing-hbo-max-1234984990/

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/jared-leto-rock-climbing-near-death-video-red-rock-nevada-a9384636.html

?

[Carliios]

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/tv/tv-news/jason-momoa-rock-climbing-hbo-max-1234984990/

https://www.independent.co.uk/arts-entertainment/films/news/jared-leto-rock-climbing-near-death-video-red-rock-nevada-a9384636.html

?

We need someone more local, I’m gonna throw Harry Styles in the ring.

[petejh]

Bear Grylls obvs. He could flog his Welsh island and buy cragx.

[Teaboy]

Anyone know how much they paid, could the BMC have afforded some or all of it?

[fiveknuckle21]

I nearly posted this earlier but decided it was better on the DL until we'd (BMC access reps) made contact.

Land purchased doesn’t include the crags (Ravensdale, X etc) which are owned by Natural England as far as I can see. How will it affect climbers?

No, it includes Crag X.

https://twitter.com/LynnCroweSHU/status/1553500983828807680?s=20&t=lgc9xqeHaGjaz0lmi5K_EQ

Comments from her youtube channel:

paul mitchell 1 month ago
Hi Rachel. Climbers have visited and loved those crags and trees for  60 or 70 years. I trust they will find no opposition from your  community. You may wish to to talk to the British Mountaineering Council about your intentions for the dale.

Rachel Elnaugh 1 month ago
We come in Peace

Rachel Elnaugh 1 month ago

We are aware that the 7.5acres of forest to the South of the Ravensdale paddock is classified as SSSI.

We are indeed in touch with Natural England ~  and we have also asked them to confirm whether the trespass on that land (by locals, rock climbers and tourists ~ who have dismantled part of the wall to gain access) should continue to be allowed.

Personally find it hard to approach this with an objective viewpoint. Sometimes a small statement (of intent) goes along way and the way, as I see it, she is positioning climbers (and locals!) as outsiders/trespassers is very worrying. I can already see the fences along the stone wall.

[shark]

Anyone know how much they paid, could the BMC have afforded some or all of it?

I would guess that it would have been in the region of £500-700k. The BMC has a reserve of £1.1m. This is an emergency rainy day fund that needs to be preserved so I would say that they couldn’t afford it. IIRC the CC reserve is bigger.

Even if they could afford it would they want to? All crags acquired so far have been for nominal sums or gifted where owners wanted to despatch responsibility / liability and the BMC wouldn't want to create a market where they are seen as a soft touch for crag landowners.

Also how important is the land to climbers and hillwalkers and therefore the BMC? Even I wouldn’t argue that the crag x is of national importance and similarly couldn’t see crowdfunding (which could support a BMC purchase) coming anywhere near that amount.

Obviously this is all academic as the crag has been bought.

[SA Chris]

We need someone more local, I’m gonna throw Harry Styles in the ring.

Can we throw him in a pit instead

[Carliios]

Anyone know how much they paid, could the BMC have afforded some or all of it?

Also how important is the land to climbers and hillwalkers and therefore the BMC? Even I wouldn’t argue that the crag x is of national importance and similarly couldn’t see crowdfunding (which could support a BMC purchase) coming anywhere near that amount.

Agreed. I can’t see people wanting to chip in to save a crag that’s essentially kept secret and off the books, if it was a stanage plantation type deal then yeah I imagine people would race to put money in to save it but crag x is a tiny hardcore venue that people outside of a small subset don’t really know about.

[sherlock]

I don't know much about Peak Lime but surely it has historical value? Isn't this the venue with Superman, Sean's Roof etc?lf it is this crag then I would maybe disagree that only a "small subset" of people know about.
I've never been though😊.

[monkey boy]

I don't know much about Peak Lime but surely it has historical value? Isn't this the venue with Superman, Sean's Roof etc?lf it is this crag then I would maybe disagree that only a "small subset" of people know about.
I've never been though😊.

It's where Superman is. Sean's Roof is in Blackwell Dale. I love X but for me the biggest issue with this is for the locals of cragx and Ravensdale cottages plus everyone who walks through this valley. It's a truly beautiful and peaceful spot, I don't want to see people's caravans or tents around the place.

I'm speaking to a friend who lives in cragx tomorrow too find out more from a locals perspective.

[Carliios]

I don't know much about Peak Lime but surely it has historical value? Isn't this the venue with Superman, Sean's Roof etc?lf it is this crag then I would maybe disagree that only a "small subset" of people know about.
I've never been though😊.

What I meant from small subset is that to have enough people to cover the purchase would require A LOT of climbers pitching in. Even though X is historic it’s still a hardcore venue that’s kept “secret” - you can’t expect enough people to put money in to cover the purchase of the land. It’s not like a major venue.

[sherlock]

[quote author=sherlock link=topic=32034.msg663753#msg663753 date=1659434

It's where Superman is. Sean's Roof is in Blackwell Dale. I love X but for me the biggest issue with this is for the locals of cragx and Ravensdale cottages plus everyone who walks through this valley. It's a truly beautiful and peaceful spot, I don't want to see people's caravans or tents around the place.

I'm speaking to a friend who lives in cragx tomorrow too find out more from a locals perspective.

Ah, right.Totally get this.

I don't know much about Peak Lime but surely it has historical value? Isn't this the venue with Superman, Sean's Roof etc?lf it is this crag then I would maybe disagree that only a "small subset" of people know about.
I've never been though😊.

What I meant from small subset is that to have enough people to cover the purchase would require A LOT of climbers pitching in. Even though X is historic it’s still a hardcore venue that’s kept “secret” - you can’t expect enough people to put money in to cover the purchase of the land. It’s not like a major venue.

Yep, can't disagree with that.
Just realized that I did a load of trad at Ravensdale in the 70s. Really lovely spot.

[Fiend]

Doesn't she know that climbers are Sovereign Citizens who are not subject to trivialities such as so-called "trespass"?

Covid is the first stage in a much bigger plan of mass command and control.
The aim is to create so much FEAR that the masses will say YES to vaccinations
And these vaccinations will contain the nanotechnology to create trans-humans
So that the masses can be policed and controlled by technology

Say NO to being muzzled by masks
Say YES to breathing fresh air
Say NO to anti-social distancing
Say YES to love and hugs
Say NO to vaccinations
Say YES to enhancing our natural immune systems
Say NO to being policed by facial recognition and drones
Say Yes to our inalienable sovereign rights
Say NO to command and control Government
Say YES to LIBERATION


Etc etc et-fucking-cetera. Sounds like gold ticket entry to crag X for gapescrote and mitch as long as they show proof of vaccine-refusal. For the rest of us, no liberation to enjoy their countryside??

[Eddies]

Good luck with growing enough food to feed a commune all year round in cragx dale!

At that altitude the growing season is very short and this far north its very late, plus the steep sides of the valley will cast much of the valley in shadow during the winter months.

[Johnny Brown]

Even though X is historic it’s still a hardcore venue that’s kept “secret”

The reason for the 'secrecy' is that it is part of the access agreement negotiated between the BMC and Natural England. The lower part of the dale, has on paper no public access to protect a rare moss which at the time was thought to grow nowhere else in the world (though I believe it has since been found at a site in Cumbria). Access for climbing was agreed on two conditions - only Crag X is visited and not the river below or crags opposite, and the climbing has not been detailed in guidebooks post Stoney '87. Unfortunately in the internet era such control over information has somewhat evaporated, but for the avoidance of doubt climbing photos or videos here should not be posted online. Of course not having the crag in guidebooks does limit the ability to get this message out.

Ravensdale crag is not affected, being the other side of the valley.

[Carliios]

Even though X is historic it’s still a hardcore venue that’s kept “secret”

The reason for the 'secrecy' is that it is part of the access agreement negotiated between the BMC and Natural England. The lower part of the dale, has on paper no public access to protect a rare moss which at the time was thought to grow nowhere else in the world (though I believe it has since been found at a site in Cumbria). Access for climbing was agreed on two conditions - only Crag X is visited and not the river below or crags opposite, and the climbing has not been detailed in guidebooks post Stoney '87. Unfortunately in the internet era such control over information has somewhat evaporated, but for the avoidance of doubt climbing photos or videos here should not be posted online. Of course not having the crag in guidebooks does limit the ability to get this message out.

Ravensdale crag is not affected, being the other side of the valley.

This is going a bit off topic mate, I wasn’t saying that it being secret is a bad thing, just that it means it’s less well known and thus less likely to bring in the number of donations necessary to purchase the land and save it!

[galpinos]

Had a brief look at that website... What I really want to know is who on earth is paying her £250 a pop for 'business mentoring'?

Assuming her Dragon's Den/Red Letter Days legacy?

[petejh]

Good luck with growing enough food to feed a commune all year round in cragx dale!

At that altitude the growing season is very short and this far north its very late, plus the steep sides of the valley will cast much of the valley in shadow during the winter months.

They'll have plenty of bullshit for fertiliser.

[Carliios]

Even though X is historic it’s still a hardcore venue that’s kept “secret”

for the avoidance of doubt climbing photos or videos here should not be posted online.

Doesn’t seem to stop all the wads posting videos of their sends of superman 

[Eddies]

Turns out they’ve been chopping trees down in the wood so much so that the councils put TPO’s on the rest of them!

Notice that she's selling her house in Bakewell:
https://assets.savills.com/properties/GBNTRSCLI204804/CLI204804_NTS20004828.PDF

She lived in Thornbridge hall for a time with her husband and children. They setup some kind of commune there, with other families staying there in other rooms. Her husband and her were all part of a big government fiddle where they setup a back-to-work training scheme and claimed millions of government money for trainees that didn't exist! It all got swept under the carpet under Camerons government and Rachel let the country to stay in Goa for a year until it all blew over.

Their Thornbridge hall have upset the Peak Park by building a big car park and a path off the Monsal Trail to drawn tourists to their cafe, all without planning permission. But the Peak Park seem fairly powerless to stand up to them.
It certainly doesn't bode well for Cress'brook Dale

[SA Chris]

all looks like a bit of a horrorshow.

[Will Hunt]

all looks like a bit of a horrorshow.

I know, right? They keep a decent cellar but that bathroom looks like it's been designed by Llewellyn-Bowen during a Sangria binge. There's an animal skin in front of the log burner and not a single healing crystal in the place; the chakras in the gaff must be all over the show.

[SA Chris]

The Feng is a shambles, nice wee hoose mind.

I mean the situation and the people obv. But I guess you knew that. 

[gme]

[quote author=Eddies link=topic=32034.msg663834#msg663834 date=165961254

She lived in Thornbridge hall for a time with her husband and children. They setup some kind of commune there, with other families staying there in other rooms. Her husband and her were all part of a big government fiddle where they setup a back-to-work training scheme and claimed millions of government money for trainees that didn't exist! It all got swept under the carpet under Camerons government and Rachel let the country to stay in Goa for a year until it all blew over.

Their Thornbridge hall have upset the Peak Park by building a big car park and a path off the Monsal Trail to drawn tourists to their cafe, all without planning permission. But the Peak Park seem fairly powerless to stand up to them.
It certainly doesn't bode well for Cress'brook Dale
[/quote]

Was that not Emma harrison A4e

[shark]

Yes - that was Emma Harrison

Rachel Elnaigh’s Wikipedia bio

[galpinos]

Yes - that was Emma Harrison

Rachel Elnaigh’s Wikipedia bio

The link in there to her website is a nice little treat...... 

[JamieG]

Wow, her webpage is something to behold. The number of different font, colours, sizes, random pictures is amazing. It reminds of my early days on the internet when people first started putting up their own unique homepages and they all had crazy garish backgrounds and word art galore! Kind of sad the modern internet is so polished and streamlined, but at least it looks nicer.

The original space jam website is a classic example that is still up https://www.spacejam.com/1996/

[Carliios]

Wow, her webpage is something to behold. The number of different font, colours, sizes, random pictures is amazing. It reminds of my early days on the internet when people first started putting up their own unique homepages and they all had crazy garish backgrounds and word art galore! Kind of sad the modern internet is so polished and streamlined, but at least it looks nicer.

The original space jam website is a classic example that is still up https://www.spacejam.com/1996/

Reminds me of this
http://www.homerswebpage.com/

[SA Chris]

or this, that i found trying to remember the name of the pub next to Castlerigg Camping

http://www.theheightshotel.co.uk/

[Hydraulic Man]

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/dragons-den-star-rachel-elnaugh-7419310

"An incredible Vagina of land" 

[remus]

Just a reminder that this is a public forum. It's unlikely to help relations if the new landowners find threads full of climbers slagging them off.

[Moo]

Much as I agree with everything that’s been said so far Remus is probably right

[SamT]

Rachel Elnaugh ordered to tear down community farm

https://www.derbytelegraph.co.uk/news/local-news/dragons-den-star-rachel-elnaugh-8362458

[SA Chris]

Good. "Star" is doing some heavy lifting in that headline.

[Jono.r23]

In the area the other day, I asked a passing peak warden about this issue & apparently the owners are now selling up

[duncan]

Peak District National Park Authority confirms removal of unauthorised works at cragx Dale

Of course it had to include a traditional Derbyshire tipi.

[yetix]

Link isn't working for me, anyone got another link?

[Bradders]

It's because of the auto replacement of C-brook. If you copy the link address into Google it should come straight up.

[duncan]

Hopefully the original link works now.

Derbyshire Telegraph story