[Fultonius]

Honestly almost choked on my tea hearing Brandenburg Gate being mentioned in the context of legacies and what people think is important. NO ONE CARES.

I know, bonkers eh? I mean, it's basically the equivalent of one of Ondra's local-only nasty test-pieces that naebody is ever going to be bothered to repeat.

Hard, and significant in local (peak-centric) historic terms but not even nationally interesting imo...

[remus]

Honestly almost choked on my tea hearing Brandenburg Gate being mentioned in the context of legacies and what people think is important. NO ONE CARES.

I know, bonkers eh? I mean, it's basically the equivalent of one of Ondra's local-only nasty test-pieces that naebody is ever going to be bothered to repeat.

Hard, and significant in local (peak-centric) historic terms but not even nationally interesting imo...

There's only a handful of routes 9a+ or harder in the UK so it's nationally significant in terms of difficulty if nothing else.

[joeisidle]

Honestly almost choked on my tea hearing Brandenburg Gate being mentioned in the context of legacies and what people think is important. NO ONE CARES.

I know, bonkers eh? I mean, it's basically the equivalent of one of Ondra's local-only nasty test-pieces that naebody is ever going to be bothered to repeat.

Hard, and significant in local (peak-centric) historic terms but not even nationally interesting imo...

There's only a handful of routes 9a+ or harder in the UK so it's nationally significant in terms of difficulty if nothing else.

Maybe a better analogy is that you wouldn't say that a lot of the font 8Cs put up in limestone crags in the UK were really drawing lots of media attention/demonstrably inspiring the next generation (or whatever metric we're arguing about here) despite their objective difficulty and rarity. The only thing that sets brandenburg apart from these is the gaskins story, which is interesting to a niche subset of climbers. I'm in my early 30s, have spent a large part of my life climbing in the peak and dont think the vast majority of my climbing partners have known the history behind it.

[Duma]

That's not the point.

Which of Will's competition results do you think are more important/memorable?

[wasbeen]

I guess his best result is 5th in World Cup lead event.

Which probably matches, anything he had had done outside before last year.

Whilst, it is is exciting to see what he goes on to do outdoors. It would also have been interesting to see how he would have got on indoors with his new found strength.

[joeisidle]

That's not the point.

Which of Will's competition results do you think are more important/memorable?

None, because i literally don't know any of them and my "in" into this sport was being a nerd about its outdoor history, but I think it'd be weird to pretend that I'm representative of the people picked up in the BMC participation numbers or that I can speak for all possible reasons that would keep people interested in the sport after they start indoors.

For my n=1 I know of two climbing partners who know why brandenburg 'matters' and two who I think would probably know Wills comp history but not have much of an idea about what he's done outdoors. The rest seem pretty disinterested in either and i would wager that my social circle is probs more self selectingly interested in climbing outdoors /climbing history than your average wall climber's. Doesn't suggest to me that ascents like brandenburg make most people care intensely about the sport.

[Bonjoy]

When it comes to significance, or legacy, I think audience matters a lot. Ultimately I think a lot of ambitious climbers want to make a name amongst their peers, in terms of location and similarity of interest. So it's pretty irrelevant to them how much non climbers or climbers of other disciplines know or care about their achievements. Quality over quantity is a thing.

[northern yob]

Good thread!
I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure Earl would rank winning a World Cup bouldering comp as up there with any of his outside first ascents.

Tyler would’ve literally done anything to emulate that, I’m sure he’d happily swap one of his many significant first ascents for a top step on a World Cup podium.

I think things are/have changed and the parameters that most of us on here use to measure significance and what’s important within climbing are very different to the kids…..

I consider myself a geek when it comes to climbing history, and whilst things done outside carry way more weight for me, one of the most inspirational climbers I’ve ever seen ( I’ve been lucky enough to have seen and climbed with a lot ( chris says hi)) was Salavat Rakhmetov a guy who barely climbed outside, to the likes of him and Dimitri competition results were definitely more important.

[Doylo]

Good thread!
I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure Earl would rank winning a World Cup bouldering comp as up there with any of his outside first ascents.

Ye but hardly anyone these days will even know that nevermind think about it whereas The Prow and The Young are still problems that get people talking 

[northern yob]

Good thread!
I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure Earl would rank winning a World Cup bouldering comp as up there with any of his outside first ascents.

Ye but hardly anyone these days will even know that nevermind think about it whereas The Prow and The Young are still problems that get people talking 

Very true, but fuck what anyone else thinks, all that matters is what you think…. I don’t think some comp kid from London gives two shits what JB thinks, what’s he ever done at the westway for starters.

[Steve Crowe]

Good thread!
I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure Earl would rank winning a World Cup bouldering comp as up there with any of his outside first ascents.

Many of Andy Earl’s achievements indoors and outside are mentioned in my article here:

https://climbonline.co.uk/2020/05/05/andy-earl-on-top-of-the-world/

[Doylo]

Good thread!
I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure Earl would rank winning a World Cup bouldering comp as up there with any of his outside first ascents.

Ye but hardly anyone these days will even know that nevermind think about it whereas The Prow and The Young are still problems that get people talking 

Very true, but fuck what anyone else thinks, all that matters is what you think…. I don’t think some comp kid from London gives two shits what JB thinks, what’s he ever done at the westway for starters.

.

Dunno but I can confirm ShowPonies are native to both the Plantation and the Westway. I’ve seen them with my own eyes .

[northern yob]

Good thread!
I might be wrong but I’m pretty sure Earl would rank winning a World Cup bouldering comp as up there with any of his outside first ascents.

Ye but hardly anyone these days will even know that nevermind think about it whereas The Prow and The Young are still problems that get people talking 

Very true, but fuck what anyone else thinks, all that matters is what you think…. I don’t think some comp kid from London gives two shits what JB thinks, what’s he ever done at the westway for starters.

.

Dunno but I can confirm ShowPonies are native to both the Plantation and the Westway. I’ve seen them with my own eyes .

Next time you see one down the westway ask he or she if she knows what the prow or the young is. Then ask them who the current World Cup champ is…….

[Doylo]

Never going to London again but I’ll pop in the Indy and ask there.

[MischaHY]

Honestly almost choked on my tea hearing Brandenburg Gate being mentioned in the context of legacies and what people think is important. NO ONE CARES.

I know, bonkers eh? I mean, it's basically the equivalent of one of Ondra's local-only nasty test-pieces that naebody is ever going to be bothered to repeat.

Hard, and significant in local (peak-centric) historic terms but not even nationally interesting imo...

Will is literally out there with Ondra right now to try said grim test pieces.

[abarro81]

Clearly no amount of finger strength can guarantee you good taste 

[teestub]

Of all the places to go on holiday! It looks like a good local training crag, but not exactly a destination!

[shark]

Critical post from Shauna:

https://www.facebook.com/100044639040139/posts/501441251353839/?d=n

Whilst in the USA I had the privilege of being a part of a workshop at the IFSC General Assembly.  Sharing the stage with fellow Olympians discussing the Games and how National Federations can better support athletes. I feel incredibly privileged to be the President of the IFSC Athletes Commission and to be a part of an organisation that has two athletes with voting rights sat on their Executive Board. Maybe we’ll see this happening in more of our National Federations too.

I wanted to share some of my thoughts with you here after reflecting on my own personal journey as well as voices from other athletes.

Our sport is at a pivotal point. Climbing’s inclusion in the Olympic Games enables us to share Climbing with the world on a platform like no other. The opportunity to represent my country on the biggest sporting stage is a privilege I will never forget. There are so few medals at the Olympic Games. At any event. Athletes fuelled by passion, dedication and dreams work hard for the opportunity to fight for those medals. The reality is so few will hold one in their hands.

With the Olympics comes exposure, money and pressure. Not just for athletes but for coaches, managers and the National Federations.

This exposure will also change our sport. We have already seen this with new sporting formats, new rules but this change impacts all aspects of an athlete's journey in the sport all the way down to junior level. We are no longer a small sport of passionate people who love climbing, instead we have new infrastructures to manage Olympic programmes and people coming into the sport for the salaries and the glory to deliver ‘high performance’.

This is where I fear athletes will suffer.

Climbing is a creative sport, a lifestyle sport. It is not like swimming. Every magical moment in competitions has come from a moment of artistry where the athlete responds to the challenge made by the setters. This creativity is the core of our sports values. It is the connective thread from the walls on the Olympic stage right through to climbing on rock.

However I see these values being continually dismissed as a trade off for seeking ‘performance’. Athletes are regularly locked out of conversations which could have pivotal impacts on their competitive careers and their livelihoods under the moniker of ‘reducing the noise of the athlete’. I experienced this myself during my career but luckily I had a team around me who fought to include me in these discussions so I could own my journey.

Creating an environment of trust with open communication is essential. Athletes should never feel they can not be honest. I know from personal experience and from others that there is a constant fear of not being selected, being dismissed, jeopardising your opportunity to compete. That fear becomes silence or conformity.

[edshakey]

Please can someone decode this for me? It's like trying to read a post by Dave Mac about a hard trad grade - many words, few of much meaning

[mr chaz]

Speed climbing is shite

[Teaboy]

 Critical of what?

[Wellsy]

Probably Franco

[dunnyg]

He is a proper elastic albatross tbf

[shark]

Please can someone decode this for me? It's like trying to read a post by Dave Mac about a hard trad grade - many words, few of much meaning

Yes it is a bit incoherent but the central premise seems to be the athletes should be more involved in the decision making or at least to listened to more and the culture should be that they can be open about things and not worried about being penalised for being critical.

Some of the things she says mirror a post of Ellie Howard’s who I think was part of her team or in some way connected with her:

https://www.climbingcoachingconversations.com/post/climbing-is-not-swimming

I think it’s significant that Shauna has broken cover and said something negative - it’s not like her. Clearly a bigger story as to what has prompted her to do so. Whether it’s justifiable criticism or not who knows? 

[teestub]

This seems like an odd argument, yes it’s not swimming, but I think Japan have shown very well that comp technique training can be formalised and practiced just as effectively as strength, fitness or flexibility.

I can’t imagine anyone is actually being assessed based on how many one armers they can do, or Bosi would still be on the team!