[cheque]

Bloody hell  . Hard work tonight but realistically Denmark didn’t deserve anything.

Now England -an England team who can finish jobs, stay calm under pressure and keep the ball no less- are in a position most of us have never known before (a position we’ve never been in in this competition)! What’s everyone’s feelings for the final? Do we have a chance? How many should Southgate play at the back? What will happen when the irresistible force of the commentators’ pro-England bias collides with the immovable object of their unconscious collective man-crush on the Italian players and coaching staff?

I know how much people like to tell everyone that they don’t like football, particularly when there’s a major tournament on so there’s an option especially for that.

[andy popp]

Buggeration. At least we might get some sleep tonight.

[Andy F]

Hopefully we'll lose to the far superior Italians. Just so the beer bellied, nazi tattooed, brexit and Tory loving cockneys who claim to represent England can cry into their flat, warm Carling.

For the actual, normal, everyday, peaceful and pleasant person I hope England win. But still think the more savvy Italians will nick it.

[TobyD]

 Well thanks for the spoiler, I was hoping to avoid the result and watch it on catch up 

I agree with Andy F.

[Will Hunt]

I don't like football but I can get into just about any sport if it is that sport's biggest competition. I quite like the world cup.
I can't get excited about the Euros. It seems half cocked if you've whittled down the field by telling Brazil, Argentina etc that they can't play. Aren't there some African countries who are handy as well?
The Euros are bogus - am I wrong?

[IanP]

Bloody hell, the misery is in full flow on here.

Enjoyed the match here, despite the tension.  Not the biggest football fan (comes well behind cycling and tennis for me) but have still seen plenty of disappointment from England over the years so seeing a young team getting to the final by generally playing postively (after the group stage) and trying to win matches has been pretty good.

Imagine we'll go into the final as underdogs but I'm sure Italy would have preferred to play Denmark and we definitely have a chance.

[ali k]

I can't get excited about the Euros. It seems half cocked if you've whittled down the field by telling Brazil, Argentina etc that they can't play. Aren't there some African countries who are handy as well?
The Euros are bogus - am I wrong?

You must hate the rugby six nations. That one pretty much just excludes the two best teams from the competition 

I dislike football for many reasons, not least because of the assumption that every bloke on the planet is a fan and must therefore be happy for it to be a conversation starter. Working in construction this gets tiresome pretty quickly.

But Gareth Southgate seems like a really nice guy so I’m glad they’ve got to where they have. Still want them to lose in the final though to avoid the inevitable triumphalism.

[SamT]

Nibs??

I don't really like football.  I hate mostly everything it represents.  The celebration of Neanderthal behavior. The tribalism, The blatant cheating. The money, (by christ, the money!)  The corruption.  The bias.  The utter drivel ejaculated by everyone, non of whom actually play football and not least by the highly paid pundits (did I mention the money) who invariably come across as thick as 3 short planks.  I think the entire nation is being conned on a twice weekly basis.

As my lad quite wittily said the other day, as we passed a pub or something with giant England flags dangling,
"Its all a bit EDL isn't it"

All that being said and being at loose end last night, I sat and watched most of the match and was actually quite entertained.  I can only really get vaguely interested once we get to this end of a tournament and that's only really so I don't feel like a complete scrooge at work when everyone's wanking on about it.

Pain au Niad.

[SA Chris]

I'm like Sam, usually indifferent, the kids are quite excited by it all though, so I'm getting swept along a bit. I'm glad England are through, I thought both teams played excellent attacking football, and there was some brilliant goalkeeping on both sides.

I think they will struggle against Italy, but could just pull it out the bag.

[TobyD]

I don't like football...
The Euros are bogus - am I wrong?

The US world series must really piss you off too then

Seriously though, I like football it is a great spectator sport,  but I don't like England games.  It's the whole ethos of fans driving around blaring horns if we win, and burning cars if we lose that puts me off. 

Look at what Cav has achieved in the TDF though, amazing. 

[IanP]

Look at what Cav has achieved in the TDF though, amazing. 

That we can agree on.  I reckon prior to this TDF Cavendish has already given me some of the most exciting moments in sport I've ever seen and his comeback this year has been incredible. 

[Stabbsy]

The Euros are bogus - am I wrong?

Yes.

I hope you're being tongue-in-cheek here, but it's the internet and difficult to tell. Almost all sport includes some exclusion in competition to create the competition, be that geographical, gender or something else. Is the 100m breaststroke bogus because you could do front crawl faster? Is all women's sport bogus because men would beat them?

I normally watch the occasional match and endure England matches, especially in Euros/World Cup. I've actually enjoyed most of the matches that I've seen this time with the exception of the Scotland match. Clearly I want England to win and don't understand anyone who wants us to lose to stop triumphalism - I just wish the triumphalism would stop because it's unnecessary and ridiculous. However, I expect Italy to beat us as they looked far better in the other semi-final.

Also, what Toby said about Cav. Coming back after that long in the sporting wilderness is truly incredible.

[SA Chris]

I don't like football but I can get into just about any sport if it is that sport's biggest competition. I quite like the world cup.
I can't get excited about the Euros. It seems half cocked if you've whittled down the field by telling Brazil, Argentina etc that they can't play. Aren't there some African countries who are handy as well?
The Euros are bogus - am I wrong?

It's called the European Cup, not sold as anything else?

No African Teams are likely to ever threaten to win the WC for a while, they have their own cup, https://www.cafonline.com/total-africa-cup-of-nations/ also bogus.

Then there's the Copa America as well, https://copaamerica.com/en/news/ is that also bogus without any European or African teams playing?

[spidermonkey09]

Jesus, have you lot had your coffee this morning? Wind it in and enjoy a multicultural, talented, politically engaged team playing to their potential.

Edit: obviously the Euros aren't bogus (copa America, African Cup of nations etc).

[cheque]

The Euros are bogus - am I wrong?

Yes.

The other continents have equivalents (Copa America, African Cup of Nations etc.) and they’re taken as seriously as the Euros are.

In theory the continental championships are easier to win as there are fewer teams from a smaller area but it doesn’t seem to make that much difference- this is only the second Euros where England have won a knockout match for example. Obviously we’re underachievers (at least in our own minds) but we have a better record in World Cups.

In some ways the way it’s smaller nations best chance of winning something makes them harder opponents and the smaller pool of teams makes it harder to avoid the very best in the knockout stages etc.

You’ve also got the element of all the nations coming from the same tactical/ stylistic school of thought as well- at World Cups it’s not uncommon for a very good team from one continent to get thumped by one from another due to each setting up in the style that’s currently dominant in their world but quite easy to overturn using the tactics from another that they rarely face -one beautiful aspect of World Cups of course- but there’s none of that at the continental tournaments.

The home continent advantage is huge too (it’s very unusual for South American teams to win European-hosted World Cups and vice versa). Where the World Cup is like an international meet at one world-class crag, the continental ones have more of the air of a bunch of locals all trying to burn each other off at a familiar eliminate venue that they each think they’re the boss of.

There’s also the every-four-years factor- in the same way that the Olympics are a snapshot of which athletes are able to perform in a particular location at a particular time rather rolling tracker of which ones are the outright best, the major tournaments are a test of whose squad/ manager/ players combination are up to it at that time. It’s not uncommon for a nation that won the last World Cup to be dumped out of the following Euros or Copa America early on.

There have always been Mickey Mouse/ semi-friendly tournaments for international teams (The Nations League is the current version in Europe) but there’s a solid dividing line between these matches and major tournaments. The continental championships are on the same side as the World Cup, not the other one.

[webbo]

I watched most of the match last night on my IPad with the sound off as the missus was watching something else on the TV. She went to bed as the match ended and I started listening to all the comments. I was quite stunned to hear that of all the people in the commentary team only Ian Wright was alive the last time England got in to a final.
Watching Mark Cavendish after he won his first stage in this years tour was one of those “ I think I’ve got dust in my eye moments”

[cheque]

Imagine if the coffee thread (for example) was 60% people saying “I think coffee tastes gross and I consider myself above the people who I often see drinking and serving it but I do sometimes like a cup of Nescafé when I’m really groggy in the morning”. 

We love football because we grew up with it and we find it an exciting sport to watch. We’re aware of all the twattery that comes with it but we can see past it because we love the game.

[Teaboy]

As a Wales supporter there is some consolation in the fact that these players and manager seem to be pretty decent folk and that a few high profile English nationalist wankers have declared that the current team do not represent them.
However, it’s not enough to counter the fact this will be seized on by other wankers to demonstrate English superiority/entitlement for the next 50+ years so for that reason I hope they get well and truly humped in the final.

[galpinos]

Thank the lord for that pint of wine.

Italy are clear favourites but, as ever, "we have a chance". After the first 30, I though England looked decent. This feels like the first England team in a long time that appear to play as a team and aren't full of egos. Southgate seems to have done a decent job on them.

Pickford still gives me the willies though, crikey.

[SA Chris]

Pickford still gives me the willies though, crikey.

In what way, like Slender Man?

[Teaboy]

Italy are clear favourites but, as ever.

Is that true? I don’t follow Italian football but the team seem to be made up from players in teams throughout Serie A (including some of the smaller teams) and Serie A is not the force it was if the Chanpions League is anything to go by. The star centre back is 36 yo without a club, they are playing well but so are England. I’d put England at least on a par with Italy but with added benefit of home advantage.

[Will Hunt]

Cheque, you do a good job of selling it. It's still not quite as prestigious as a world cup though! I'm not saying that it's not exciting in and of itself. I just struggle to match the level of excitement with my perception of how big a deal the tournament is. For me, it'll only come home if/when we win the World Cup.

But, Come on In Ger Land and all that.


Now, Cav in the TDF. THAT is exciting!


I agree that getting sore about triumphalism is daft. Didn't we all get excited when Nalle did Burden of Dreams? Football fans aren't all EDL members.

[Somebody's Fool]

Hopefully we'll lose to the far superior Italians. Just so the beer bellied, nazi tattooed, brexit and Tory loving cockneys who claim to represent England can cry into their flat, warm Carling.

For the actual, normal, everyday, peaceful and pleasant person I hope England win. But still think the more savvy Italians will nick it.

Good job there are no right wing nationalists who hate the EU in Italy!

[petejh]

Will you're (almost) completely wrong. Just on the stats, let alone the spirit.
The last 4 world cups have been won by European teams - France, Germany, Spain, Italy.
The last 10 world cups, so 40 years of history, have been won 7 times by European teams, 3 times by S.American. (France x2, Germany x2, Spain, Italy x2, Brazil x2, Argentina x1).

For England to get to a final in the Euros means they've competed at the very highest level. To win the Euros would be to show you're a top 3 footballing side globally.

[spidermonkey09]

I dont think Italy are far superior. They are probably a bit better but there's not a lot in it. Add in home advantage and England have a real chance. Italy looked second best for the majority of the match against Spain.

I think the biggest thing that gives me grounds for optimism is the Italian style, which should make for a good open game. Denmarks tactics were to be extremely physical and essentially frustrate England, much as Scotland did in the group stages. They did it brilliantly but Italys more open style will allow England more space and hopefully allow them to express themselves.