[ali k]

Also interesting how politicised the game has become for some people.. or rather how they're attempting to use it as a tool for pushing their political agenda.

Are you including the England players and manager in that?

To me it's football, and great because it's nothing else but a stupid yet beautiful game. Not anything to do with party politics and who governs the country. Thought Gary Neville was a bellend for trying to introduce political opinion into a great moment in sport.

If you’re arguing that politics and sport shouldn’t ever mix then I think you’re onto a loser…there’s a long history of it. If this govt chooses to start a pathetic culture war (including dog whistle racism) then they shouldn’t be surprised if people push back. Particularly black players. I think you’re confusing party politics with politics more generally Pete. Gary Neville made no comment about the Conservative party. Same with the England players. So it’s not party politics. Culture wars like the one this govt are propagating bleed over into race and equality issues - not as easy to separate out as you suggest.

[teestub]

Racial politics versus party politics, it's a very different thing. When an entire race has been prejudiced against for literally hundreds of years, treated as sub-human scum (ahem..) and used as slaves to enrich current power structures, then I think most people can see the power and relevance of those moments in sport.

Sorry Pete I had forgotten that we’d sorted racism out in this country, and that there isn’t any differences in outcome in any areas based on race any more.

[Wellsy]

England doing well at football is great. The England fans aren't overall worse than those of any other nation's and most people watching and getting excited are ordinary people who are just psyched cos a pretty dynamic and likeable English national team are playing well.

And if you're concerned about the jingoistic nature of it and the lack of "wokeness" in the whole affair (as someone who's definitely a bit of a woke lefty SJW type myself) this England team is the most diverse, progressive and broadly supported national side we've ever had. There was an oped in the Guardian about how three young British Muslim women were so excited cos they felt like the team and the support was so much more welcoming than before! There was also someone who went to a match presenting as the gender they wished to for the first time, found the atmosphere very welcoming, and Jordan Henderson tweeted at saying how glad he was that they felt welcome because the game is for them too, explicitly. The kneeling and the lgbt bands. They're a good team and good lads!

Yes the hyperbole gets a bit tiring but It's Coming Home, so just have a bit of fun with it!

[Andy F]

The odds are it's going Rome, not coming home.

If England do win then expect reams of nationalistic jingoism in the redtop rags.

[Wellsy]

Yeah but they always do that and so what? Doesn't mean they own the result, or the nation's identity. It's mine as well and I fucking love it.

But yeah we'll probably lose. Still though!

[Nibile]

Here I am, although a bit late.
Well I don't like football and I didn't watch any match, just the goals highlights.
I realized that what I like in general is the emotions from the commentator, more than the feat in itself.
I can recall a fan's video and yelling "Come on you fucking beauty!" for Zanardi's gold in London, video sadly removed.
I can recall Galeazzi's "We can't die now!"   for the Abbagnale brothers rowing, and many many more.
This time, this guy did it for me. I hope he knows what that means to (some of) us.

[spidermonkey09]

Rice has been a defensive powerhouse. He does an enormous amount of dirty work for little reward and has looked one of our best players for my money. I rate Henderson but if you can't appreciate Rice then your Liverpool shirt is showing I think Andy...  I also think having Henderson on the bench to close games out is a great option.

I would like to see Foden over Mount I think for the final, but wouldn't be too upset if there were no changes. Southgate rates Mount because he is so clever and understands the tactics better than anyone else on the pitch, I can see why that would be useful in a chess match final.

[Andy F]

Rice has been a defensive powerhouse. He does an enormous amount of dirty work for little reward and has looked one of our best players for my money. I rate Henderson but if you can't appreciate Rice then your Liverpool shirt is showing I think Andy...  I also think having Henderson on the bench to close games out is a great option.

I would like to see Foden over Mount I think for the final, but wouldn't be too upset if there were no changes. Southgate rates Mount because he is so clever and understands the tactics better than anyone else on the pitch, I can see why that would be useful in a chess match final.

As a Liverpool fan, I am biased towards the real England captain. Rice is very one dimensional, whereas Hendo has won (and captained) every major trophy at club level and is a much more complete player. His tactical knowledge and experience would be essential against the wily Italian team. His support of the LGBTQ+ community and general humility mark him out as a real top lad, not saying Rice isn't.

Still not sold on Mount, he ghosts through large parts of games.

[205Chris]

I can recall Galeazzi's "We can't die now!"   for the Abbagnale brothers rowing, and many many more.

Totally  but the Searle brothers v the Abbagnale brothers in the coxed pairs is one of favourite Olympic moments. Shame it got taken down from YouTube the last time I checked.

[danm]

I agree with Pete to an extent on keeping politics out, taking the knee isn't a political act, it's a human one, as is writing to support LGBT fans and wearing rainbow laces, but slagging off the government (and I despise them with a vengeance btw) feels a bit too much. If it was something specific, for example if they had cut funding for grassroots sports and then hypocritically basked in the glory of sporting success, then it would feel more warranted.

Anyway, back to the footie - I can see why the Rice is preferred over the magnificent Hendo when playing with the two sitting midfielders. Rice does the dirty jobs well, I think he's better at covering and tackling, whilst Phillips has a great engine and a decent range of passing. My only reserve watching the matches so far is we've been so reliant on the full backs and wide forwards combining. If we get negated out wide it feels like we have little attacking threat, although Kane getting his mojo back and dropping deep to take passes might help with that.

[Teaboy]

If it was something specific, for example if they had cut funding for grassroots sports and then hypocritically basked in the glory of sporting success, then it would feel more warranted.

Patel and Johnson had used the England Team to fuel their culture war. They then pivoted from dog whistle criticism to OTT tub thumping. I think that is specific enough to warrant a bit of push back. I’d expect the political leaders to support the team but the way it is being manipulated would make me sick if I was a former England right back and might make say something.

On the other hand, school sport survived the ten years of austerity so, you’re right, there’s nothing to criticise them for there….

[WillRobertson]

The amount of negativity on this thread is remarkable. This is a young England team doing great things at a very competitive international tournament, led by one of the most likeable person in the game.

Yes, a significant of fans have terrible views on politics and society in general but why does that mean other people shouldn't get to enjoy the success of the national football team? Should we also not have fun at Christmas, or NYE just because some other people we don't like are enjoying themselves? The booing of national anthems is pathetic and crass, but the majority of fans don't do it. Let's enjoy all the positives mentioned already instead.

So I am very ready to get behind the team and have a hell of a time in the build up the match (before being a nervous wreck throughout it). I hope you all manage to crack a smile too when the boys bring it home!

[mrjonathanr]

On the other hand, school sport survived the ten years of austerity so, you’re right, there’s nothing to criticise them for there….

Woah! Gove axed the sport leaders programme within about 3 weeks of assuming leadership at the DfE in 2010. It paid for specialist secondary PE teachers to work in primary schools a couple of days a week. Invaluable given primary teachers are not PE specialists. Small saving, big loss.

If school sport is surviving the ravages of austerity, it’s not for want of trying.

[andy popp]

I have no claim to being a serious fan, but I've really enjoyed the whole tournament and many of the games - there seem to have been some really excellent matches. The atmosphere in our neighbourhood close to the stadium in Copenhagen has been absolutely fantastic. My earlier buggeration comment earlier wasn't a whine or anti-England. I simply genuinely wanted Denmark to win and am disappointed we won't get to see them in the final.

[TobyD]

If England do win then expect reams of nationalistic jingoism in the redtop rags.

In what way would that be different to the usual news agenda in the Express, Sun etc?

Patel and Johnson had used the England Team to fuel their culture war. They then pivoted from dog whistle criticism to OTT tub thumping. I think that is specific enough to warrant a bit of push back. I’d expect the political leaders to support the team but the way it is being manipulated would make me sick if I was a former England right back and might make say something.

On the plus side though, if they're concentrating on how to manipulate sporting achievements for themselves,  they're not out breaking international laws, or trying to deport anyone their focus groups happen to take against

[Teaboy]

On the other hand, school sport survived the ten years of austerity so, you’re right, there’s nothing to criticise them for there….

Woah! Gove axed the sport leaders programme within about 3 weeks of assuming leadership at the DfE in 2010. It paid for specialist secondary PE teachers to work in primary schools a couple of days a week. Invaluable given primary teachers are not PE specialists. Small saving, big loss.

If school sport is surviving the ravages of austerity, it’s not for want of trying.

We obviously need a sarcasm emoji!

[mrjonathanr]

Yeah, sorry, read in haste.

[mrjonathanr]

Southgate’s open letter is worth reading
https://www.theplayerstribune.com/posts/dear-england-gareth-southgate-euros-soccer

[galpinos]

Can’t wait for Sunday. Italy look very strong and they have guile and gamesmanship in spades, but I could say the same for the current England team now which makes for an exciting final.

If it comes down to quality of shithousery the Italians are nailed on! Looking forward to it, and I've not felt like that for quite a while!

Racial politics versus party politics, it's a very different thing. When an entire race has been prejudiced against for literally hundreds of years, treated as sub-human scum (ahem..) and used as slaves to enrich current power structures, then I think most people can see the power and relevance of those moments in sport.
When it's just someone living a pretty good life in an open and fair democratic state, who has a chip on their shoulder because they don't agree with the current government in power, then keep it out of sport ffs.

Was that reply aimed at me Pete? That seems quite the response to my comment that both teams know how to "win" a penalty.......

https://www.theguardian.com/football/2018/jul/05/what-is-shithousery-and-why-its-the-world-cups-biggest-problem

[petejh]

No, Teestub’s comment before yours.

[kelvin]

Yesterday, I walked around not knowing how to feel about actually getting to a final.
This morning, much to my partner's annoyance, I cranked up the amp and played all the old England footy songs, all the way back to Keegan and Brooking in '82.
If I'm honest, I'd lost interest in football of late, after it being a huge part of my life. I've stood on the terraces at the old Wembley and followed England to the World Cup in Germany in 2006 - some wonderful times

So I'm going to enjoy the next few days and try to ignore Boris in his England shirt.
The match will be hard to watch, hopefully the reward will be a victory 🙂

[cheque]

I walked around not knowing how to feel about actually getting to a final.

  The only cups I’ve ever seen my team lift are the 1987 Freight Rover Trophy and the 2013 Blue Square Bet Conference Premier. I have absolutely no idea what you do  when a team you support is truly in the running for a major title, let alone if they actually win it!

To be honest (and probably partly due to the above) I feel like I imagine a lot of England fans do- not choking to theoretically weaker opponents in the semi was the real test and the playing in the final against an excellent team that we can honestly claim to be in the same league as is the icing on the cake.

This tournament’s already markedly better than every other one I’ve ever seen England play in and barring the seemingly unlikely event of a down-to-nine-men, 6-0 drubbing on Sunday I’ll be cool with whatever happens and hopeful that the positive characteristics of the current England setup become as entrenched as the negative characteristics of the previous ones.

[SA Chris]

France vs Switzerland was the game of the tournament for me so far. Plucky Swiss playing as a team, not giving in and giving it all against a complacent French team who thought they would walk it. 

[cheque]

Yeah that was great. Pogba with a Pardew-esque hubristic dance after scoring his goal, the commentators foaming over them way ahead of time but Switzerland refusing to lie down. Performances like that do seem to fit the narrative that the origins of many of the current Swiss crop as refugees from former Yugoslavian states gives them a bit more backbone than the stereotypical Swiss side.

I enjoyed Spain- Croatia the most I think. Impossible to really see which way it was going to go until Olmo really got going for “the Spaniards” in extra time. Spain seemed headed to the final to me, on one of those classic getting-better-every-match tournament progressions.

Czech Republic- Denmark too. Not a display of “top top” football but two teams who knew they weren’t expected to have had a shot at the semis going at it like crazy.

[Rocksteady]

I walked around not knowing how to feel about actually getting to a final.

  The only cups I’ve ever seen my team lift are the 1987 Freight Rover Trophy and the 2013 Blue Square Bet Conference Premier. I have absolutely no idea what you do  when a team you support is truly in the running for a major title, let alone if they actually win it!

To be honest (and probably partly due to the above) I feel like I imagine a lot of England fans do- not choking to theoretically weaker opponents in the semi was the real test and the playing in the final against an excellent team that we can honestly claim to be in the same league as is the icing on the cake.

This tournament’s already markedly better than every other one I’ve ever seen England play in and barring the seemingly unlikely event of a down-to-nine-men, 6-0 drubbing on Sunday I’ll be cool with whatever happens and hopeful that the positive characteristics of the current England setup become as entrenched as the negative characteristics of the previous ones.

Really like this and agree. I guess I've been following England matches since about 1990 - last time I actually got really excited was Euro 96 as a teenager! Since then I've just become progressively more cynical and bored of watching. Our teams always seemed to be tired and scared of failing at big matches.

Feels like Southgate has transformed this fundamental attitude and given them more confidence to try. I was delighted by the 6 minutes of overtime in the Danish game; old England would have punted the ball about in our own half. This new Southgate England was actually trying to score a goal until the final whistle blew. That's how you win penalties and force own goals and ultimately win matches.

The cynical me says we've had a pretty soft run through the tournament and we were lucky to play a weak Germany side. And so the final is going to be first world class team we'll play. But actually the England teams I've watched my whole life to now would have conceded goals and lost to average teams.

Yes I cringe at how the Tories will capitalise on the euphoria of winning (if it happens). But I still desperately want England to win!