Inspirational videos of successful sieges featuring flailing footage from early in the process would be good too
a willing belayer to ab into a massive hole in the ground,
Is working it on a rope on your own possible?
Possibly not relevant as bouldering focussed, but from the few sieges I've had, I now believe that I wasted my time by maintaining the 'just keep turning up' mentality, spending 15 sessions trying to get up something that I really wasn't strong enough for. I have since employed the alternative method of going away to train like a nutter, getting strong, climbing other stuff in the meantime, then going back to crush the hard thing when ready. I found this to be much more enjoyable but everyone is different.
Quote from: shark on June 21, 2021, 12:32:12 pmIs working it on a rope on your own possible? It is - I have a fixed line in place and a micro trax/tract up setup, I can't do very big links links though as it has some sideways/downclimbing. I can practice the up sections with that setup and the traverses with a grigri but I think switching from one setup to the other on a link is beyond me!
...also if people have experience of spending lots of time on routes and breaking them down from feeling brick hard to flowing over sections of rock that they previously felt miles away, sharing some of that would be great too!
Re the below:"it's got about 26 moves in a row all of which are frustratingly easy to slip off even if they don't feel super hard when you do them" - is the slippability because of poor feet, body positioning, move initiation or accuracy going for the next hold? Either way seeking to identify why you fail when you do by breaking down into micro beta and then making them higher % moves through more practice, little mind memos and relentless visualisation should help.
Good question! I think the body positions have to be basically perfect for the footholds to stick, and to get between some of the body positions you have to move really dynamically so keeping consistent-ish pressure and angle of push on the footholds while moving between the positions
Quote from: i_a_coops on June 21, 2021, 11:30:31 am...also if people have experience of spending lots of time on routes and breaking them down from feeling brick hard to flowing over sections of rock that they previously felt miles away, sharing some of that would be great too! Bear in mind, that being able to "flow" through the moves in control, or the conditions being optimum, is not a prerequisite for doing a route, even close to your (perceived) limit. I've had a few RPs where success came on a frankly terrible go in terms of precisely executing moves, when ill-prepared, or in poor conditions. E.g. when I did Grooved Arete, I was hungover, the weather was warm and humid, and my feet slipped off three times on the way up. I was only at the crag to get out of the house and had no expectations, since I had been failing repeatedly when I felt far fitter and the conditions were much better. Similarly, when I did Urgent Action it was the first time I had ever linked from the ground, through a hard move fairly low down, to an intermediate rest, around halfway up. It was the fourth session and my comment to my belayer before setting off was "if I can get to the 4th bolt today, that'll be a good day's work"! I managed to get through "the move", and after a long rest / temporary mental breakdown at the rest, just kept on trucking (spurred by the suspicion that this go was an unrepeatable fluke). When I was lowered off, I was almost delirious with fatigue and was stumbling around for an hour, babbling. The other climbers there seemed almost as surprised, as I had made bugger-all progress since the start of the process - with no meaningful intermediate links. Bullet at Kilnsey was similar - I had never managed the crux boulder sequence, even in complete isolation after resting on the rope, until the successful RP go.The TLDR message, is don't get too hung-up on the moves feeling comfortable and achieving a neat-and-tidy succession of milestones. Sometimes, the inexplicable happens and you shake, flail, and muddle your way to the top despite feeling you haven't established a foundation for success. The key is stubbornness - if you do find yourself making unexpected progress - don't just accept that small gain- try to suffer all the way to chains.
I can't remember who it was that told me, but once you start thinking you'd like to have done it by now RPing becomes a bit grim. Try and enjoy it for what it is.
Possibly not relevant as bouldering focussed, but from the few sieges I've had, I now believe that I wasted my time by maintaining the 'just keep turning up' mentality, spending 15 sessions trying to get up something that I really wasn't strong enough for. I have since employed the alternative method of going away to train like a nutter, getting strong, climbing other stuff in the meantime, then going back to crush the hard thing when ready. I found this to be much more enjoyable but everyone is different. It's probably further reinforcing my poor technique too
remain alert to indications that you are missing something on a certain move or sequence. Its never too late to change something.
[I would never siege a route I did not enjoy.
[quoteAlso, I try to remember that "quick redpoint" just means "shit at onsighting"
Quote from: Ged on June 21, 2021, 06:23:36 pm[quoteAlso, I try to remember that "quick redpoint" just means "shit at onsighting"Genius
On the inspiration front, I find Steve Mac's diary of attempts on Rainman very good for the psyche http://www.steve-mcclure.com/articles/131-rainman-sagaI find it incredible that the first time he had the "it's on!" moment after 120 sessions, and the continuous dedication to refining beta is remarkable.
Yes, all true. Basically the point I'm trying to make is that for all the people who climb on such rock colours /styles frequently, onsighting is harder and therefore the gap between their onsight grade and siege grade is likely to be larger. They aren't necessarily shit at that subdiscipline I don't think.
My on-sight grade on Euro-lime (across many areas - El Chorro, Siurana, Ariege, Chullilia, St Leger, Costa Blanca, Leonidio etc.) has always been 2-3 grades higher than in the UK.
In my experience, I think it's important to really siege something for a short window with zero expectations of redpoint. Like 5-7 sessions over a 2-3 week window. This should separate the finicky moves that you just need to learn a little from the actual crux moves. It'll also give you a real idea of how it feels to start linking sections. To start to learn where you'll find the true redpoint crux. After that initial siege, step back and reassess. What will you actually need to get it done, or at least to connect more dots and make progress? Step away from it and spend a dedicated time for another 2-3 weeks doing work to improve that and then come back.
having a child helped me find this sweet spot.