[Bradders]

On the inspiration front, I find Steve Mac's diary of attempts on Rainman very good for the psyche http://www.steve-mcclure.com/articles/131-rainman-saga

I find it incredible that the first time he had the "it's on!" moment after 120 sessions, and the continuous dedication to refining beta is remarkable.

Loved that, great read. Particularly that he was considering down climbing Raindogs in order to have a high first clip on his RPs 

[moose]

My on-sight grade on Euro-lime (across many areas - El Chorro, Siurana, Ariege, Chullilia, St Leger, Costa Blanca, Leonidio etc.) has always been 2-3 grades higher than in the UK. 

The routes are perhaps more my style in Spain etc (resistance or long with hard sections separated by shake-outs) but mainly the difference is how much easier they seem to read.  Perhaps an exaggeration, but the optimum beta on nice, steep orange coloured limestone is usually "with feet on the most conveniently situated rubber-blackened nobbles, throw for the chalkiest holds you can reasonably get to". 

In the UK there seem to be far more routes, even at lowish grades, where the best sequence involves some barely perceptible, initially rejected crozzle, a hidden hold, or the counter-intuitive use of holds.  Moves that needs either a bit of time dangling on the rope to fathom, really good beta, or a lot of strength in reserve to try all the options.

[jwi]

Yes, all true. Basically the point I'm trying to make is that for all the people who climb on such rock colours /styles frequently, onsighting is harder and therefore the gap between their onsight grade and siege grade is likely to be larger. They aren't necessarily shit at that subdiscipline I don't think.

Yes, oh well, that thought doesn't help when you have fallen on your 21 rp attempt and some young wippersnapper tell you that they did it 3rd go and found it soft.

[Sasquatch]

In my experience, I think it's important to really siege something for a short window with zero expectations of redpoint.  Like 5-7 sessions over a 2-3 week window.  This should separate the finicky moves that you just need to learn a little from the actual crux moves.  It'll also give you a real idea of how it feels to start linking sections. To start to learn where you'll find the true redpoint crux.  After that initial siege, step back and reassess.  What will you actually need to get it done, or at least to connect more dots and make progress?  Step away from it and spend a dedicated time for another 2-3 weeks doing work to improve that and then come back.  You can do a session a week or so on it, but those sessions should be aimed at enjoying it and learning more about conditions. Learning nuances rather than actual linkages.

[TobyD]

My on-sight grade on Euro-lime (across many areas - El Chorro, Siurana, Ariege, Chullilia, St Leger, Costa Blanca, Leonidio etc.) has always been 2-3 grades higher than in the UK. 

Mine too. (3 grades).

Re redpointing, many people above made extremely good points,  I'd add that a good tactic for me has always to work on finding rests wherever you can on the route, even if it's something as small as relaxing the other hand or an extra chalk up. It all makes it easier. 

[highrepute]

In my experience, I think it's important to really siege something for a short window with zero expectations of redpoint.  Like 5-7 sessions over a 2-3 week window.  This should separate the finicky moves that you just need to learn a little from the actual crux moves.  It'll also give you a real idea of how it feels to start linking sections. To start to learn where you'll find the true redpoint crux.  After that initial siege, step back and reassess.  What will you actually need to get it done, or at least to connect more dots and make progress?  Step away from it and spend a dedicated time for another 2-3 weeks doing work to improve that and then come back.

  This is good. Keeps things a bit fresh, rather than turning up week after week trying the same things.

That said, you ain't going to do it if you're not trying it.

But if it's getting you down - leave it for a bit.

I find some specific training helps. Even though you say specific training won't help. I've used the trick of saying "this is just like the Nth lap I do on the board every week" as a mental boost.

Finding lots of links to do - rather than just trying it from the bottom - can be good. You can maintain progress by ticking through links and when you do start from the bottom you have the knowledge of all the links you've achieved. Done badly this could mean you spend longer on it trying links when you should have tried from the ground. It's a fine balance.

If you keep failing at the same point then that's a sign that something ain't right. Re-assess. Change beta. Check your redpoints are using the same beta as working goes. Go away to refresh for a bit.

Warming up well. Starting on something very easy. I'm bad at just jumping on the project but generally fair better if I warm up on something else and do a really good warm-up.

If, like me, you've climbed all the time for years then you can make huge strength gains by having less and shorter but more intense sessions. Lattice have written about this, I think Stu experienced it. Having a child helped me find this sweet spot.

Also Iain, you're a really good climber so I've got 100% faith in your ability to do this!

[SA Chris]

having a child helped me find this sweet spot.

Hope this wasn't the only reason