[Bradders]

Sorry for the extremely corporate sounding title...

Been meaning to ask the UKB definitive view about this for ages, but was prompted by this article on the BBC yesterday:

BBC News - Covid: 'People are tired of working from home'
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-56237586

Essentially the story is "man who owns lots of office space thinks people should go back to the office", which I thought was pretty funny.

Meanwhile in the real world various companies have already started confirming cuts to city centre office space and / or redesigning retained space to use in new ways.

What are people's views on this? Are you desperate to go back to an office? Are you being made to by your firm? Or are they talking up flexible working and letting everyone move to wherever as long as they get the job done? Have you found working from home to be the best thing ever or would you prefer more balance?

[AJM]

Lots of discussion of this amongst my team at work.

Personally, I think for some meetings it's slightly smoother in person, and for some of my team I know the "this would be so much easier if we could sit round a computer screen and figure it out" idea is one which has come up a lot.

I know some people who are keen to go back for a variety of other reasons - social, drawing a clearer distinction between home and work (this is something of a double edged sword, particularly when busy), better working environment, better collaboration..... mostly wanting to retain some extra flexibility although I'm sure there are some who will be back full time as soon as they can.

I don't think I'm likely to be forced back - my boss is focused on me delivering stuff not how I do it and so I don't really have day to day supervision in any real way even pre pandemic. I expect I'd go back a couple of days a week, once it felt safe to do so. But I'm also hoping for more tolerance of working from home (I used to do it a bit anyway, especially of I had things I needed to review, so I mean more "because I fancy it" rather than needing a reason) and more tolerance of longer mixed work/holiday breaks to spend more time in holiday places whilst working a bit of the time, that sort of thing.

[RobK]

We're a relatively small (~30 people) software firm and went fully remote back in March. For me it's been great. No noticeable loss in productivity, no commute, I can finish work and hit the board straight away etc. I think some people have found it harder. We are unusual in that nobody has young children so no-one has had to balance home schooling or anything like that.

There has been no official line yet from management on exactly how we will operate going forward but by the sounds of it it will largely be personal choice. For me, 1 day a week in the office would be perfect. There are obviously some things I do miss. A chance to say hi to everyone, have those meetings which would just be easier in person and those chats where odd things crop up, before working the rest of the week at home.

There are also other things that will be interesting to see how they work going forward. For example, I would have found it very hard to have been a new starter under the current conditions and not being in the office to be able to ask the multitude of questions that inevitably arise in the first weeks/months.

[SA Chris]

We've got kids going back in 2 weeks so will see what work says. I refer working from home when the kids are at school, but home schooling has been painful again. I'd ideally like a mix of something like 3 days a week in the office and 2 at home, which we might end up doing if we need to maintain social distancing in the office once we go back.

[steveri]

Haven't been into an office in 8y. I'm actually giving more to work than I should currently, lunchtime runs are long gone. Just been bought by a US company who are more meeting oriented - I have a thing tomorrow with 11 people dialling in, would have been 2-3 in the old setup. They're thinking of *opening* an office. I'm pretty good at switching off at 6, not checking stuff at the w/e, etc.

[User deactivated.]

I have 2 kids and working from home has been better in every way for me. My employer is beginning to encourage us back into the office - I will refuse!

[JamieG]

I'd ideally like a mix of something like 3 days a week in the office and 2 at home, which we might end up doing if we need to maintain social distancing in the office once we go back.

Definitely, this. I'm in a lucky position, since I work at a University and so even pre-pandemic I was able to be flexible. Working a mixture of days from home and the office. It meant that if I really need to concentrate I could work from home without too many distractions or it was easier to drop off and pick up my kid. But I do miss going in and chatting with colleagues, having a coffee with them etc and some things are much easier to sort out face-to-face. I do a fair amount of coding for data analysis and trying to sort that out with PhD students over Teams/Skype is worse than pulling teeth. :-)

I really think it is the option that most companies should offer. Much more family/lifestyle friendly too. Nice weather - go for a walk/climb etc. Need to pick up the kid, leave early or work from home. Catch up in the evening weekend. I It requires the companies the trust their employs more to manage their time and get the work done. I appreciate some people might take the piss but the vast majority I think will actually do better work.

[M1V0]

Not exactly 'work' work but PhD research, and something I started during lockdown. For me, the only two reasons I would ever want to be onsite would be for a) better internet, my current broadband (and only available option) is disappointingly slow and frustrating when Teams fails to work when I am trying to teach, and b) to get an idea of whether what work I have done is in line with my peers.

Totally bizarre having no idea whether the work I have done is sufficient and if others are experiencing the same issues as myself. Would appreciate the opportunity to share an office with others to get a feel for what's appropriate. Becomes a weird little solo echo chamber with only supervisor input once a week (whom I have never actually met in person!).

[spidermonkey09]

I have worked from home for a year now, since Jan 2020. Everyone else in the office went remote in March and started returning to the office piecemeal in the autumn (a lot of staff live very close to the office, 5 mins walk, so think it made practical sense as much as anything). Throughout this lockdown they have been in the office as normal doing lateral flow tests every day, but those who didn't feel comfortable could continue at home. I would definitely have been in this category even if I didn't currently live several hours from the office.

Based on a phone call the other day, it sounds like any who lives remotely close to the office will be back in full time with no option for flexible working as soon as they can. In the event I ended up living close-ish again I would resist this but suspect it will result in a row, which currently I am avoiding because I don't need to have it while I live a distance away.. I really like working from home and count the lack of commute as the biggest benefit to my life. If they absolutely insist I come in every day I would look for another job, but I am definitely unusual among work colleagues, most of which enjoy being in the office and actively wanted to go back in.

I think being a new starter would be hard remotely, but I think this is a cross I'd be willing to bear for the benefits. I think it also benefits employers- I get all my work done the same as I did before, maybe more as I start at 8 and rarely finish on the dot at my allotted time, whereas when I was in the office you couldn't get me out the door fast enough!

It will be really interesting to see how it goes. I suspect you will see an 'office working boost' when lockdown eases as people will be desperate for social interaction, but over the next few years remote working will become more normal. Once the genie is out of the bottle I don't think it will go back in.

[James Malloch]

I think it would depend on my situation a lot. When I lived in Leeds I was a 20 min walk to the office so went in every day but many of my colleagues rarely came in.

Then I moved (pre-covid) to a contract role with required 1-2 days in the office at most (and most meetings were still on the phone with Indian colleges anyway). Now I've been remote for a full year and wouldn't really like to go back (especially as I've now moved further away from that office).

I'd happily go back to an office within a short walk, or once a week with more travel, but we also got a lockdown dog which means I'm not looking to get another job where I have to be in the office regularly. But I'm quite lucky that my line of work often is quite supportive of home working.

[galpinos]

Big multinational engineering firm, we had a 400ish person office in Cheadle Heath, Manchester. Globally, the firm has realised there is a lot of money to be saved by ditching these big offices and seem to be looking to move to a small office in each location with some hot desking facilities but mainly co-working spaces/meeting rooms to allow those in person discussions that happen more freely to happen in person. Design and model reviews have been a bit painful over Teams.

I assume the working pattern will go to 2 days in, 3 at home. What hasn't happened is any kind of on boarding for people when they move projects/join the firm and the new graduates have been, imho, hung out to dry. We will see how that pans out....

[Falling Down]

We're a ~100 headcount management consultancy that's part of a much bigger global creative/digital/media firm with offices in Kings X.

Most of our clients seem to be heading toward a hybrid model for office based staff and we're doing the same.  Lockdown has been tough three groups of our employees. Younger team members in house shares who have been working from their bedrooms or communal areas, often sharing space with other house mates also on Zoom and Teams.  Singleton's living alone who have felt very isolated, sat by themselves all day and night often for days at a time.  More extraverted personalities who thrive on interaction with others have also struggled.  For parents it's been a mixed bag.

I suspect I'll go to a 3/2 onsite-home ratio with some flex either way depending on what I'm doing.

If anyone's interested, two of my colleagues have a webinar with guests on this topic on Thursday. It's open to all, so feel free to sign up or share https://landing.gateone.co.uk/events/digital-workforce-webinar.html with your colleagues/bosses/friends.

[mrjonathanr]

Interesting replies. I work in a school so the issue is settled for me.

My cousin however, works in San Francisco as a business management consultant. The company he works for did have an office, but abolished it at the start of 2019. He spent most of that year at his parents' in Cambridge, just adapted his hours -he opened his laptop at noon and finished around midnight.

Once Covid arrived he became stuck stateside.

[ali k]

I was 'based at home' even before covid, but my work involves going to sites 2-3 times a week and the rest of the time writing reports so I get a decent balance away from home anyway. The only thing that's changed is now most meetings with clients are done over Teams which saves me a round trip of sometimes 4-5 hours just for a 1hr meeting, so I hope that continues long term - the meetings also tend to be a lot more focused so they're over quicker which is another bonus. In theory, aside from the meetings and site visits I could basically do the rest of the work whenever I wanted, but tend to just end up working semi-normal hours anyway. Not sure why that is a lot of the time.

Girlfriend has recently started a new job and has been remote the whole time - it sounds like an absolute nightmare trying to get up to speed and with no one at a desk next door just to ask random questions. But just the fact she's in the same location more or less 9-5 every day is getting her down - she's really looking forward to being able to go into an office, at least for part of the time. I think without the variety I get from going out a few times a week I'd probably be the same (but only if it didn't add a massive commute). A 2:3 office/home split definitely seems like the way to go.

[SA Chris]

I was fortunate to get a month in the office with work colleagues in new job before going back to WFH again. I can see it would be a pain not to have had that.

[tomtom]

Falling Downs post was good - identifying groups that would struggle....

From an academics POV, Its no problem.

I was about to write "I miss face to face teaching" and then realised that wasn't necessarily true... Delivering a lecture via zoom/teams is a very dull and unmotivating experience...

However - that has been replaced by making short lecture chapters that are pre-recorded. So instead of an hour of blah blah - there are 3 x 10-20min pre-recorded lectures. I mix these up a bit... one was me talking whilst walking down the road... some have bits to time lapse lego to explain things, one featured paper airplanes to make a point. Mostly its me talking in a window on the screen about powerpoint slides, but these can be animated and recording them on an ipad enables me to scribble all over them which works well.

Its a learning curve - but not all bad.... video conferencing a lecture or tutorial chat is crap - but the alternatives are not all bad....

I also teach computer practical classes - and for these, instead of giving out a handout and hovering around the room (computer lab) helping people who stick their hand up, I now pre-record the instructions as follow the clicks style instruction vids (again in 10-20 min chunks) and am there live on Teams if anyone has a question. I can take over their screen if need be and sort things out etc... I actually think this works better than face to face... seems to be smoother - maybe they have less distractions (chatting to their mates sat next door etc..).

Quite what this all means for delivery in the future - maybe MOOCs (Massively Open Online Courses - I think) may actually take off instead of crashing and burning - I expect there will be a get bums on seats to justify the £££ charged issue - who knows....

Most of the (largely) pointless meetings I have to attend, that seem to be the bread and butter of academic administration, are all perfectly fine on Teams, and I think will now remain that way.  For collaboration - we used to use it all the time anyway - just now everyone is much better at it!

[tommytwotone]

Echo what others have said - I'm in IT, and work for a company that has been recruiting up here, had plans to open a Leeds office but has now put them on hold. We've been told we'll be working from home for the foreseeable.

I was a new starter in July and on-boarding has been really hard, though I was lucky to have a great handover from the outgoing person in my job and my team have been really supportive. The rest of my team joined around the same time / since then and I think we've got a good dynamic, even if we've only met in person once for a coffee in Leeds.

One thing I've noticed is that when you're doing loads of Zoom calls the temptation is to just get straight down to business, so there's a lot less of the 'banter' / chit-chat that serves as the social glue that holds a team together. You can try to achieve this with Slack etc but it's probably the biggest thing that I've noticed being absent in this way of working.

Then, since Jan, juggling home-schooling a 7 year old, keeping a 4 year old occupied and also somehow trying to do my job have added another layer of difficulty.

Then again, my employer / boss are great and have allowed me to have a late start / long lunch type setup so I can do stuff with the kids, and then I tend to do bits and bobs in the evening to catch up.


Assuming the schools / nurseries go back, I think 100% home working has pros and cons.


Pros
- I get to spend a LOT more time with the kids / "be present" for them
- I do a lot closer to 50% of the household maintenance / child admin stuff that used to fall to my other half
- Cost / stress saving of the commute, which could regularly be quite bad (c.1hr to cover 9 miles in an evening)
- Cost saving of not frittering money away on lunches / coffees etc

Cons
- Collaboration is just hard when you can't all be round a whiteboard - still haven't found a suitable solution for this
- Ditto team building
- I personally miss 1:1 social contact with other people for sure
- I feel bad for the local independents that are struggling
I could see a world where maybe once a month I go down to London (where our office is) for a 1:1 with my boss, do some collaboration to set up the work for the coming month, maybe go out for a meal with the team etc, but the rest of the time I'll be here at home.


I'm lucky that around half of my team live c.15 mins away, so I've been saying that assuming the restrictions get lifted, and if everyone is comfortable with it, we could do the odd day at my house!


Aside from all the above, I think the only thing that would significantly improve my quality of life (aside from the kids being back!) would be a home board, but as we're mid-house sale I'm doing all I can to change that situation.

[JohnM]

I have pretty much worked from home now since 2016 (albeit as a self-employed person). Logistically it is not a problem and I have worked for companies in the UK, Australia, the US, Sweden and currently Germany, often without ever having to visit the clients office. I much prefer working from home as there is no time wasted either commuting or working to an arbitrary time like you often have to do in an office. When I was working full time in London mentally I would be done by 4pm but I would have to stay killing time until 1730 or 1800 as that seemed like the earliest acceptable time to leave and even then I would be one of the first ones out of the door. Now I like the fact I can train at home or go running at flexible times during the work day. I can also more easily prepare my own food and eat better.

Having said I do miss the collaborative buzz you can get in the office that can't always be replicated over video conferencing and I have experimented with co-working spaces over the years but I found them expensive and actually working between two different places was more trouble than it was worth. I also like to visit clients' offices for week stints which was good to get away, get lots of work done and catch up with friends and go out for beers etc. I would often feel drained after such a week though and be happy going back to working from home! As others have mentioned about junior staff it would be good to take on an intern or a junior member of staff but doing that remotely would be bad for both of us so that makes things difficult.

Now it is quite frustrating as I have started a new contract with a company in Munich but I have never met any of the team in person. I could do with going there to collect a laptop so I can access there systems more easily but the company currently has a policy that the first login has to be on the premises but outside contractors are not allowed in the premises. The plan was to go to Munich and log in on a bench outside the building but now I am not even allowed to cross the border because of the prevalence of this SA variant.

It seems some companies want their staff to go in just to justify the use of an expensive office space. My girlfriend has to go into the office once a week often just to have Teams meetings with other people at home. Absolutely pointless. Personally I hope it will be beneficial to me in the long run as people who were reticent to employ the services of remote workers might be more willing to do it now. Just before the pandemic I was offered a contract in London but in the end it didn't go ahead because I wouldn't agree to come into the office 1-2 weeks a month. A few months later the whole company was working from home anyway!

[Coops_13]

- Collaboration is just hard when you can't all be round a whiteboard - still haven't found a suitable solution for this

Have you tried "Miro" or "Mural" (similar concepts to each other). I've used Miro a lot internally and with clients as a whiteboard tool, very powerful in presentations to get away from slides and get interaction from the audience. It integrates fairly well with Teams (not sure on Zoom). Could be worth a look?

That being said, I agree F2F so much better for collaboration

[Coops_13]

As a consultant I "normally" do a lot of travelling to client sites etc. I know lots of clients who have been wanting to (but scared of) going remote for years and this has been a great catalyst for that. Not sure what life looks like post-pandemic but I imagine I will be going back to a lot of travelling (which I enjoy) partly as clients often like to see you there working in front of them as they're spending a lot on you! Obviously this will likely vary massively from client to client as they will undoubtedly have different protocols in place and different levels of relationship (and trust) with us...

[andy popp]

As an academic I've always had and appreciated a lot of flexibility in how, when, and where I work, with little day-to-day oversight. I've always felt trusted to get on with my job. Like a lot of academics (and people in other careers) my boundaries between work/not work time have often been very blurred - which I've never minded, and still don't. In terms of going in, that was largely for teaching, admin, and meetings; home was for research and writing.

I moved job and country in Nov 2019 and I moved very largely because of the colleagues I would gain - the person whose work I admire most in my field is now not someone I see once a year at a conference but someone who sits in the office across the corridor from me (or would do if it weren't for ... ). The brief taste of work culture I got here was everything I hoped it would be. I also loved the 15 minute cycle commute punctuating the start and end of the working day. I went in most days, whether or not I "needed" to. But he was also looking forward to becoming more Danish - when Danes are not working they are really not working, there's zero email traffic over weekends for example.

Then my wife got really, really sick, the pandemic hit and the three of us found ourselves living together in a tiny apartment (tiny because we live in a massively expensive capital city). Luckily our daughter had in-person schooling almost all of last year but has now been home since early December. I have to teach from a crappy armchair and coffee table in the bedroom. Because of how ill my wife has been we have been very serious about locking down. That's been necessary, but we're all undoubtedly suffering from it too. I was also still really a new started when things went pair shaped and I still don't fully understand how many important things work at my job. And though I already knew many of new colleagues, we're in a new country with no established social networks.

I love being in the classroom and would much prefer to be there (I was able to do some of my teaching face-to-face in the autumn) but I don't actually hate teaching online. Unlike TT I do all of my teaching "live." I had a really great class yesterday with lots of interaction. Supervisions and tutorials work absolutely fine via Zoom/whatever. Meetings also work fine and seminars/workshops too, for the most part - there's one this morning I'm looking forward to.

But I can't wait to go back to work. Meetings can still happen online if that's what people want, but I miss the opportunity for spontaneous conversations with colleagues and I miss the collegiality. Talk is so important to my working life.

I think what is really unknown in my line of work is what will happen to conferences - which I've always really enjoyed, unlike many academics. I should be getting ready to fly to Detroit for what I view as my main, home conference. Instead it's happening via some platform I've never heard of called Hopin; I'll go to what I can, given the six hour time difference. Conferences may not come back as we used to know them, and I will miss them, but even pre-pandemic I was getting very uncomfortable with how unsustainable and unjustifiable they were starting to feel. It will be interesting to see if we return to the old "normal," but I don't think we will.

As TT pointed out, Falling Down's post was important for pointing out how different the impact can be for different groups. What's notable is that everyone posting here is in a white collar/technical/skilled role that can be done remotely (with the exception of mrjonathanr, who is clearly white collar but acknowledges he has less control over working life) - not one of is saying I'm a bus driver/factory floor worker/supermarket staff/cleaner/nurse/other essential worker and I have no choice but to go to work every day. Or, I'm in hospitality and have been furloughed for most of the last year. OMM as a small business owner has probably been most deeply impacted (though there may be others who are not talking about their experiences). For most of us this pandemic might be a very deep inconvenience in terms of our working lives, but it is just that - an inconvenience. Turns out that in the modern world, plague is not an equal opportunity experience.

ps. going for a walk with a colleague on Friday: really looking forward to that.

[andy popp]

Totally bizarre having no idea whether the work I have done is sufficient and if others are experiencing the same issues as myself. Would appreciate the opportunity to share an office with others to get a feel for what's appropriate. Becomes a weird little solo echo chamber with only supervisor input once a week (whom I have never actually met in person!).

This can be a real problem with doing a PhD at the best of times, so I really feel for you.

[mrjonathanr]

...I'm in hospitality and have been furloughed for most of the last year.

My partner’s experience. I am too busy, she is too idle, now topped off with consultations for redundancy.

Turns out that in the modern world, plague is not an equal opportunity experience.

Start of your next book, Andy?

[gme]

I think FDs post totally hits the nail on the head and would actually go further in saying that a majority of people would prefer to work in the office (assuming its one with a good environment) rather than home and both they and the business benefit from doing so. What people dont like is travelling to and from the office and get this mixed up with not liking being in an office.

50% of my office based staff are now back in the office full time as they requested it and all are back in at least a couple of days a week. Even the die hard proponents of working at home have admitted its not what they thought it would be and now want to be back in at least 3 days a week.

I have worked from home 1-2 days a week for 13 years only because i chose (or my wife did) to move 3 hours away from the office. If i lived within an hour i would go to the office every day.

In my experience climbing attracts individuals, loners, non team people so you would expect to find a majority happy to work at home on this forum but i dont think this is the case in the majority. Offices and workplaces are a lot of peoples lives, its where they meet friends and partners, get away from the drudgery of looking after the kids, housework, DIY etc.
 
My staff all socialise together outside of work and we have had two marriages between people that met in the office.  Offices force people into interactions with others from different social groups, different ethnicity, different backgrounds, many of which they maybe wouldn't have mixed with if they just worked at home. Working from home has the potential to create more divide in an already divided country.

I am not saying working at home inst right for some people but i dont think there will be as big a mass exodus that people think will happen, nor do i think there should be. I also think that businesses will down size office space and allow (make) people work from home as it saves them money. This isn't done with the employees well being in mind though, its for the shareholders.

[andy popp]

...I'm in hospitality and have been furloughed for most of the last year.

My partner’s experience. I am too busy, she is too idle, now topped off with consultations for redundancy.

My son is a kitchen manager. The furlough scheme has kept his head above water financially, but he's bored out his mind. He did start an OU degree last year, but obviously those are designed to be taken alongside not instead of a job.