UKBouldering.com

Future Ways of Working (Read 7804 times)

andy popp

Online
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5525
  • Karma: +347/-5
#25 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 07:47:40 am
Working from home has the potential to create more divide in an already divided country.

This, absolutely. There are many ways in which the pandemic is widening gaps between people.

Will Hunt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Superworm is super-long
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma: +631/-115
    • Unknown Stones
#26 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 08:57:21 am
Interesting post, Gav.

Andy, I presume you teach in English? It blows my mind that the standard of English speaking is so good there that you can have modules taught in a foreign language in a non-languages faculty. Imagine somebody trying to teach physics in Danish at a British institution!

I think I'd mirror what everyone else has said. My ideal would be 2 days in an office and 3 at home. Yesterday I took a two hour lunch and went out bouldering, arriving home ten minutes before a meeting with the EA. Wicked.

For those missing the day to day interaction, we started a daily "tea break" last March. A 15 minute slot in the morning where people talk on Teams about stuff that isn't work, though if somebody wants to moan about work then obviously that's fine. Attendance reduced after a little while so we dropped the frequency to 3 times a week and it's pretty consistently well attended.

tomtom

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 20282
  • Karma: +641/-11
#27 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 09:20:43 am
WFH does narrow down the number of people who might be pinching my milk... :D

SA Chris

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 29220
  • Karma: +630/-11
    • http://groups.msn.com/ChrisClix
#28 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 09:23:52 am
Also avoids those awkward "we're collecting for..." moments, when you have no clue who the person is but are still expected to contribute.

moose

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Lankenstein's Monster
  • Posts: 2931
  • Karma: +228/-1
  • el flaco lento
#29 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 09:31:28 am
What people dont like is travelling to and from the office and get this mixed up with not liking being in an office.

So, the future of office working depends on the invention of personal teleporters!

I'm a forensic consultant (fires and explosions mainly) and my work is a combination of site visits (1-3 a week usually), with the rest of my time spent on admin and writing reports.   Since last March (aside from a 2 week return to the office), I've been doing the report writing from home but site visits are fairly normal (wear a mask and distance when speaking with witnesses etc.). 

WFH has been convenient in many ways - lunchtime training sessions, being able to spend breaks cooking the night's meal, no time wasted going to/from the office.  And, as we have "hard" timesheets, with all time accounted for (for invoicing purposes), the bosses can't use a fear of employees malingering to force us back into  the office - so long we keep Clients happy issuing our reports within our deadlines. 

But... I am missing certain aspects of office life.  Aside from when the climbing walls briefly reopened, the only people I have met with, at any length for most of the last year have suffered the loss of their homes or businesses.  A year of no-one being in the least bit happy to see me has felt rather isolating, and I fear I am starting to fray mentally.  I now realise how important a part of my life random chats with colleagues were.

Also, experience counts for a lot with fire investigation.  The science is often fairly simple but every fire is different and expertise is largely empirical.  Also, balancing technical rigour with the expectations / wishes of clients is an art in itself.  Being able to just drop any misgivings about a case into a passing conversation at the office was a really useful informal check that I hadn't missed anything obvious, or wasn't making unjustifiable claims.  Reports are peer reviewed but these days I can waste a lot of time writing material that will have to be heavily redrafted, when a passing comment by a colleague in the tearoom might have set me right from the start.  Also, there are some efficiency issues - work that secretaries used to do, I now do from home with worse resources (copying notes etc using a mobile phone camera app is a faff).

I guess the ideal solution would be more flexibility - in the office if I fancy company / need to speak with someone / have notes and photos that need backing-up - but feeling free to stay at home if it's convenient (say, expecting a delivery, or just fancy a change).  Not sure how workable that would be, if superiors feel a need to justify the expense of maintaining an office.

Stabbsy

Offline
  • ****
  • junky
  • Posts: 763
  • Karma: +52/-0
#30 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 09:36:32 am
I don't see anything changing for me from pre-pandemic, but I was already on a 2 in/2 out pattern. It might drift to 1 in/3 out at times, particularly over the winter when travel is a bit less pleasant - when I go into the office, it's 2 hours door to door, but fairly relaxed as it's bus/train/walk so good opportunity to catch up on emails etc..

Like a lot of folk, I miss the collaboration side of things - less the chatting through work (this works quite well on Teams for me) and more the incidental conversations around the desk. I also find team management far harder remotely - don't mind having 1:1s with my boss over Teams, but I prefer to do conversations with my reports face-to-face, as you pick up quite a lot from body language. Also find it hard to gauge how busy people are and so who needs more work. That said, my team is cross-site anyway (York/London) and I work closely with a few folk in our Bristol office on another project, so even going into the York office doesn't solve all the problems. I'm lucky in that I have a dedicated office (complete with climbing library) and a view down the Porter Valley, so it's a pleasant place to be.

We've tried the daily/weekly catch-up thing that Will mentioned, but they don't really work for me - they feel too forced. The venn diagram of the people I used to go the pub with on a Friday and the people who turn up to the Teams catch-ups don't show much overlap. I'd rather go out for a run or down to the shed - maybe this says more about me than the rest of my team.

RobK

Offline
  • ***
  • stalker
  • Posts: 291
  • Karma: +14/-0
#31 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 09:40:41 am
We've tried the daily/weekly catch-up thing that Will mentioned, but they don't really work for me - they feel too forced.

The other thing for me with these is that it just involves MORE time sat at my screen, which on my breaks is the last thing I want to be doing. Definitely not the same as being sat round a table with a coffee.

T_B

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 3078
  • Karma: +149/-5
#32 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 09:44:22 am
I think FDs post totally hits the nail on the head and would actually go further in saying that a majority of people would prefer to work in the office (assuming its one with a good environment) rather than home and both they and the business benefit from doing so. What people dont like is travelling to and from the office and get this mixed up with not liking being in an office.

50% of my office based staff are now back in the office full time as they requested it and all are back in at least a couple of days a week. Even the die hard proponents of working at home have admitted its not what they thought it would be and now want to be back in at least 3 days a week.

I have worked from home 1-2 days a week for 13 years only because i chose (or my wife did) to move 3 hours away from the office. If i lived within an hour i would go to the office every day.

In my experience climbing attracts individuals, loners, non team people so you would expect to find a majority happy to work at home on this forum but i dont think this is the case in the majority. Offices and workplaces are a lot of peoples lives, its where they meet friends and partners, get away from the drudgery of looking after the kids, housework, DIY etc.
 
My staff all socialise together outside of work and we have had two marriages between people that met in the office.  Offices force people into interactions with others from different social groups, different ethnicity, different backgrounds, many of which they maybe wouldn't have mixed with if they just worked at home. Working from home has the potential to create more divide in an already divided country.

I am not saying working at home inst right for some people but i dont think there will be as big a mass exodus that people think will happen, nor do i think there should be. I also think that businesses will down size office space and allow (make) people work from home as it saves them money. This isn't done with the employees well being in mind though, its for the shareholders.

I agree with all of that. I get the impression most of my staff would like to be back in the office. I think the point about the commute is really important. I really like the people I work with and have missed the social aspect. I also miss lunch time sessions on the Wave. I’ve not missed cycling up Abbeydale Rd in the cold/dark.

I do have a friend in environmental consultancy who’s just started a fairly senior job on a wfh contract. It’s a big international firm and he reckons in the past he could only do that level of job if he was prepared to work in London or Manchester. Instead he’s living in a little village in the Peak. He’s got young kids so it suits him to have no commute.

andy popp

Online
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5525
  • Karma: +347/-5
#33 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 09:45:53 am
Andy, I presume you teach in English? It blows my mind that the standard of English speaking is so good there that you can have modules taught in a foreign language in a non-languages faculty.

Yes, I teach in English, which is the official language at CBS for all meetings, communications, and teaching (there is in fact some teaching in Danish and some emails are in both languages). The student body is international, though very largely European rather than rest of the world. That said, the general standard of English here is incredibly high. Basically all Danes are completely fluent and can switch effortlessly.

We do some social things online - coffee breaks, happy hour on Friday - and they are certainly better than nothing.

andy_e

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 8836
  • Karma: +275/-42
#34 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 09:47:16 am
I live 500 miles north of my boss, and have team members in four different countries. I've never met any of them in person. It's a most odd situation! Collaboration can be difficult at times for sure. Once things blow over I'll probably be expected to visit the Edinburgh office a few days a month, but otherwise I work entirely remotely. This suits me fine given my current lifestyle, and my working hours are fairly flexible. But then again, I don't tend to miss office interactions that much, although I certainly miss going for a pint with a few of my PhD peers!

However, I do definitely recognise the social cohesion that comes from interacting and moving outside your bubble. I don't really know if it's affected me personally much. Now I live near some close friends I can hang out with it's great, but when I lived alone in rural Aberdeenshire it was really isolating and isolated. I'm really not sure how interacting with people I wouldn't normally choose to hang out with would have affected things...

SA Chris

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 29220
  • Karma: +630/-11
    • http://groups.msn.com/ChrisClix
#35 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 09:47:28 am
Yesterday I took a two hour lunch and went out bouldering, arriving home ten minutes before a meeting with the EA. Wicked.

Done this a few times too, especially convenient when you know someone is out and can run there in about 10 mins with shoes in a bag and get a decent 40 min session in during lunch hour. Even did some lunchtime new route questing too, although mate had ropes set up beforehand.

HarryBD

Offline
  • **
  • player
  • Posts: 87
  • Karma: +5/-0
#36 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 10:01:37 am
I've not got much to add other than mine and my partner's experience.

I've been fully remote since March. Team of 9 web developers down from 22 pre-pandemic in a financial services company with ~400 employees. The web team all work in Hebden Bridge with everybody else in Leeds. Last year our CEO seemed very keen to get people back in the office but that seems to have changed over the last few months, half our office space is now going to be sublet and there will only be permanent desks for advisors, hotdesks and meeting space available for anybody else, the Hebden Bridge office is staying though.

Things I have liked have been the absence of a commute, ability to do deeper work without being distracted, lack of guilt when I spend a few hours thinking about a problem (no typing). Downsides to this for me: I really miss the social contact at work, most of the people I work with I am friends with and all my friends from school and university live in different cities. I've found collaboration harder, similar to TTT 'whiteboarding' is something we previously did at the outset of projects and now we seem to work more prescriptively with less opportunity to discuss 'how'. Going forward I expect to go into the Hebden Bridge office twice a week but this will be entirely up to me. I'm thinking of moving job and this seems to be the format that lots of tech employers are suggesting (all North of England).

My partner is a self-employed photographer who mostly works at weddings but also does regular work for some businesses in the North of England. Most weddings she was booked for over 2020/21 haven't happened and businesses have been wary to have people on their premises that aren't operationally required. Her income has almost entirely gone (she has been eligible for grants throughout though), she has felt very isolated without face to face contact with couples/contacts at businesses she works for and inability to see friends and family. As soon as it's accepted by businesses and people have an appetite for big parties at weddings she'll be jumping at the chance to get out the house and see people other than me!

Will Hunt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Superworm is super-long
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma: +631/-115
    • Unknown Stones
#37 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 10:30:00 am
ability to do deeper work without being distracted

Daisy got me a pair of noise cancelling headphones for Christmas. I was initially a bit "meh" about them but have found them very useful for this when combined with a playlist from the Spotify "Focus" genre.


A year of no-one being in the least bit happy to see me has felt rather isolating, and I fear I am starting to fray mentally.

I live in Bingley. Dunnyg lives close to you now. I think we're both out locally fairly regularly. Don't be shy about getting in touch to arrange some grit touching.

HarryBD

Offline
  • **
  • player
  • Posts: 87
  • Karma: +5/-0
#38 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 11:33:52 am
ability to do deeper work without being distracted
Daisy got me a pair of noise cancelling headphones for Christmas. I was initially a bit "meh" about them but have found them very useful for this when combined with a playlist from the Spotify "Focus" genre.

I actually meant I don't get distracted by other things going on at home as much as I did at the office with the pool table and people to chat to... Thanks, I definitely find having music on helps me, as long as there aren't any lyrics.

Liamhutch89

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1258
  • Karma: +87/-1
#39 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 12:30:08 pm
Thanks, I definitely find having music on helps me, as long as there aren't any lyrics.

No lyrics, absolutely. Somehow I'm finding the weirdest corners of Autechre's discography to be the best work enhancer, so I guess no rhythm, melody or harmony either.

Paul B

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 9626
  • Karma: +264/-4
#40 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 12:46:52 pm
My wife and I both work as engineers. She's in a client organisation, and I'm at a small 6ppl specialist consultancy. For me the place is very much what I wanted out of engineering; a room with a handful of knowledgeable people discussing technical problems and finding solutions (plus lots of model cranes).

We moved house a little further away from work (for me) last year, with the intention that my 1-day a week at home would increase to 2-days. Sometimes I'd go in as it was 'easier' to discuss things with a colleague, but in reality a lot of that was a comfort blanket and the pandemic has forced me to manage that better (basically have conviction in the things I know). The issue I see going forward is that my Directors built the consultancy from their spare room and have made it into a success; their badge of success being they own the offices outright. We sub-let to another business who have just given notice (and the downstairs was never filled). I think they'll be unwilling to go back to home working themselves, with one of them commuting (via bike) to the office and working there for the separation throughout the entirety of last year. However, the office building is FAR too big for the number of employees and is a period property so is an obvious expense.

My wife had transitioned to home working as default based on being part of a national team (prior to the pandemic) although when she wasn't at home she needed to travel ~Birmingham from the NW for team meetings which was time consuming. Her place have now decided they're permanently closing most of their offices with some remaining as 'hubs'. From what I understand that's gone down exceedingly well with people in similar roles to her (i.e. office-based), but far less well with Operations staff.

I'm lucky in that we share a desk (a 3.5m long bit of kitchen worktop) and we've got a really nice setup with large monitors and I splashed on fancy Autonomous chairs. Although she doesn't do exactly the same role as me and visa versa we can (and do) ask each others' advice on topics / detail so it's not the complete solitude that others may experience.

In terms of work life balance, it's better for me (undoubtedly). My place are very accepting that I'm a terrible morning person and if the weather is good, forget getting Dir. 1 on the phone as he'll be out running somewhere. They actively encourage me to do the same (to the point of phoning and telling me to log off and go out on the bike because "it's nice out"). TBH I'm very grateful as it's clear they set up a business as they didn't like working for other people so that they could manage work/life better. I moved from a massive consultancy (with offices across the world) so it was quite a change.

Bonjoy

Offline
  • *****
  • Global Moderator
  • forum hero
  • Leafy gent
  • Posts: 9932
  • Karma: +561/-8
#41 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 01:00:52 pm

Andy, I presume you teach in English? It blows my mind that the standard of English speaking is so good there that you can have modules taught in a foreign language in a non-languages faculty. Imagine somebody trying to teach physics in Danish at a British institution!
I don't think this should be very surprising. We have the great misfortune in this country of speaking an international lingua franca. In most other countries you have your native/default language that is obviously crucial, plus English which you get a huge utility from learning and are bombarded with from a very young age via all forms of media. There is no equivalent single language for us to learn, just a choice of languages that offer a much smaller benefit for the effort of learning, none of which we are subject to via media in any kind of pervasive way. So basically it's harder for us to learn a 2nd language and we get less benefit when we do. It's always been fashionable to beat ourselves up about this but personally I think we have a fair excuse.
Apologies for the  :off:

Falling Down

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 4880
  • Karma: +333/-4
    • bensblogredux
#42 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 01:06:38 pm
Andy, I meant to open my post (which was hastily scrabbled together between Teams calls!) with a disclaimer that ours is a white collar, largely office based business.  I think that around 20-30% of the UK workforce are largely office jobs with the vast majority working on their feet in hospitals, shops, cafes, engineering and construction, in vehicles and other trades/professions where the whole work-from-home thing just doesn't register.  It must drive the majority of people mad to read the papers which are full of stories and articles on home working.  I've certainly felt very privileged to be able to continue working and from the comfort of my own home throughout the pandemic. 

On the other hand, I feel completely worn out by the whole experience and am looking forward to some variety in how I'm spending my time at work and interacting with others.  (I think this is exacerbated by my studies, training and psychotherapy work all taking place over Zoom on top of a full-time managerial job - but that's my choice). 

Since Christmas we've been taking a hard look at the amount of time we are spending on Teams and Zoom and have reverted back to teleconferences for some meetings and phone for a lot of 1:1 interactions.  I've been trying to practice 'walk 'n talk' meetings, going outside and talking on the phone rather than over the screen. 


tomtom

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 20282
  • Karma: +641/-11
#43 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 01:28:12 pm
Our use of Teams has made quite alot of my work better - its like having lots of official whatsapp groups really... very handy for teaching, as we can communicate semi formally to other staff of any issues or things that have worked really well. Often these don't get emailed or are forgotten about...

Many of my more introverted friends/colleagues are very happy with the new way of working - though by definition they are less likely to shout about it! :)

The remote teaching aspect is going to make Higher Education meet some uncomfortable truths head on: that it is perfectly possible to deliver high quality courses completely remotely.

How this then factors into the 'business model' of HE going forward will be - err - interesting...

mrjonathanr

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 5377
  • Karma: +242/-6
  • Getting fatter, not fitter.
#44 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 01:57:26 pm
Teaching subjects in non native languages - immersion teaching- is not so uncommon ouutside the linguistically poor culture of the uk Will.

Will Hunt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Superworm is super-long
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma: +631/-115
    • Unknown Stones
#45 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 02:06:48 pm
Teaching subjects in non native languages - immersion teaching- is not so uncommon ouutside the linguistically poor culture of the uk Will.

I presume when you say immersion teaching you mean in the context of teaching a foreign language? I'd assumed that most/all degree courses in a language would be taught in the language in question in the UK? Nevertheless I will withdraw my initial surprise given the context Andy has provided about the student body at his institution.

ali k

Offline
  • ****
  • junky
  • Posts: 944
  • Karma: +38/-1
#46 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 02:42:04 pm
A year of no-one being in the least bit happy to see me has felt rather isolating, and I fear I am starting to fray mentally.
I live in Bingley. Dunnyg lives close to you now. I think we're both out locally fairly regularly. Don't be shy about getting in touch to arrange some grit touching.

 :wave: Can I do the same at some point? Fingers crossed I'm moving to your neck of the woods soon (Shipley). Haven't been out climbing for about 6 months but I plan to once the move is out of the way. Hoping I can find the love for grit again after a long time away...

Will Hunt

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Superworm is super-long
  • Posts: 7976
  • Karma: +631/-115
    • Unknown Stones
#47 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 02:49:06 pm
Of course. Airedale/Wharfedale crushers gotta stick together and all that.

dunnyg

Offline
  • *****
  • forum hero
  • Posts: 1520
  • Karma: +91/-7
#48 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 02:58:20 pm
It would be nice to get out with someone other than Will  :smart:

ali k

Offline
  • ****
  • junky
  • Posts: 944
  • Karma: +38/-1
#49 Re: Future Ways of Working
March 03, 2021, 03:18:42 pm
Of course. Airedale/Wharfedale crushers gotta stick together and all that.
Great.

It would be nice to get out with someone other than Will  :smart:
Might have to go out on separate days then  :lol:

 

SimplePortal 2.3.7 © 2008-2024, SimplePortal