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Topic split - What’s the deal with Carn Vellan (Read 2463 times)

kingholmesy

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what's the deal with carn vellan now, did the other sport routes keep their bolts?

Ive got the 2000 cc guide to the area which says rewind was originally bolted which I didn't know.


Rewind was originally called Blue Sky Lightening when it was climbed on bolts. It was renamed Rewind after Mark repeated it on trad gear (after much criticism for bolting a Cornish sea cliff).

Monster Munch still has its bolts, but I am not sure what state they’re in (and re-bolting would be considered unacceptable by many).
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 01:24:03 pm by shark »

Nike Air

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#1 Re: What’s the deal with Carn Vellan
June 20, 2020, 07:52:47 am
what's the deal with carn vellan now, did the other sport routes keep their bolts?

Ive got the 2000 cc guide to the area which says rewind was originally bolted which I didn't know.


Monster Munch still has its bolts, but I am not sure what state they’re in (and re-bolting would be considered unacceptable by many).

Thanks for the reply.

Thats a shame, thought they'd be able to comprehend a crag with coexisting styles.

Let's hope someone local can investigate doing the other lines as trad routes!?

Fatboyslimfast2

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#2 Re: What’s the deal with Carn Vellan
June 20, 2020, 08:37:01 am


 :worms:

rjtrials

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#3 Re: What’s the deal with Carn Vellan
June 20, 2020, 02:43:14 pm
That looks like the best cliff in the UK.  From where i sit, across the pond, its a shame the country's sport climbing leaders haven't adopted it and legitimized such an amazing feature.

Franco

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#4 Re: What’s the deal with Carn Vellan
June 21, 2020, 10:12:41 am
what's the deal with carn vellan now, did the other sport routes keep their bolts?

Ive got the 2000 cc guide to the area which says rewind was originally bolted which I didn't know.


Rewind was originally called Blue Sky Lightening when it was climbed on bolts. It was renamed Rewind after Mark repeated it on trad gear (after much criticism for bolting a Cornish sea cliff).

Monster Munch still has its bolts, but I am not sure what state they’re in (and re-bolting would be considered unacceptable by many).

Am I correct in thinking the bolts were chopped and it's been rebolted? I certainly seem to remember the bolts in MM looking nice and shiny, but then my memory is rubbish/ prone to delusion. It certainly looked like one of the best sport routes in the UK. Interestingly there are some harder-looking cracks to the right of MM that look like very futuristic Trad lines still to do. I sent some photos to the older one of the wideboyz, but I think he was too scared to even ab down them. Exciting cliff.

petejh

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#5 Re: What’s the deal with Carn Vellan
June 21, 2020, 10:42:50 am
Quote from: Franco
I sent some photos to the older one of the wideboyz,

The Fatdadz? :)

Noticed those RH crack lines in the photo on the Cornish climbers fb post. Look like obvious targets for any hard tradster.

Would be ace if they could just accept both styles on that cliff, like sensible people. Sport routes up the steep faces and hard trad on the steep cracks. It doesn’t seem that revolutionary to me, living in the n.Wales limestone area.

Duncan campbell

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#6 Re: What’s the deal with Carn Vellan
June 21, 2020, 12:15:38 pm
I actually mentioned this earlier in the thread when the news of Wojciech repeating rewind first came out.

Luke and Pete Dawson have nothing done Monster Munch. Think Luke said that the bolts were in good nick but that you needed to place a couple of wires at the top.

Feel like I am Luke’s UKB PR manager! 😂

Nike Air

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#7 Re: What’s the deal with Carn Vellan
June 22, 2020, 09:20:32 am
Quote from: Franco
I sent some photos to the older one of the wideboyz,



Would be ace if they could just accept both styles on that cliff, like sensible people. Sport routes up the steep faces and hard trad on the steep cracks. It doesn’t seem that revolutionary to me, living in the n.Wales limestone area.

Exactly  :yes:


bigironhorse

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#8 Re: What’s the deal with Carn Vellan
June 22, 2020, 11:58:46 am
Seems like bolts were added to Monster Munch in 2005

https://www.ukclimbing.com/news/2005/05/bolts_return_to_carn_vellan-17426

Fiend

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#9 Re: What’s the deal with Carn Vellan
June 23, 2020, 07:07:10 pm

Thats a shame, thought they'd be able to comprehend a crag with coexisting styles.


The CC??  :lol: :lol:

shark

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History here when there was a big move to add sport routes:

http://www.javu.co.uk/Climbing/Articles/CornishBolts/index.shtml

This was 15 years ago.

Certainly worth revisiting

Bonjoy

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Yes, it seems like the status quo is daft and out of kilter with the rest of the UK.
I think most of the hard trad climbers in the UK would see the value in some sport routes here. In reality most hard climbers do a bit of both, value both, and have a good idea which routes suit trad and which don't. CV seems to have both and would be a better crag for having both.

Nike Air

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History here when there was a big move to add sport routes:

http://www.javu.co.uk/Climbing/Articles/CornishBolts/index.shtml

This was 15 years ago.

Certainly worth revisiting

Brill. I'll have a gander tonight.

Fiend

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Somewhat off the topic of these routes, but the vertical LH face at Carn Vellan has a bunch of nice mid-extreme routes that are well worth doing, and would be well worth keeping trad. I suspect there is such a clear distinction between the overhanging face and the rest of it that this would be a quite logical split - the harder trad routes (Ziggurat, Bridge Of Sighs etc) on the right end of the overhang would be more of a concern.
« Last Edit: June 26, 2020, 06:52:18 pm by Fiend »

Andy W

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There was also another attempt to sort this all out. A BMC meeting at the Count House? I can't remember when exactly. A few of us drafted a proposal, roughly along the lines of; rebolting and tidying up the chopped bolts, part of the proposal also included a suggestion that if re bolting wasn't voted for, then the chopped bolts would be dealt with, by the anti bolters, i.e. clean up the mess they made chopping the first time. As with the other recent BMC meetings, numbers were shipped in for the voting, swaying the result. My guess is that if it had been left to locals, then re bolting would have been favoured, there was and probably still is a fair few that would have been keen to climb these routes. As far as I know the bolts are still in the chopped state, the agreement to clean up the crag wasn't met, so there may be a good case to now re visit this argument and re bolt.

I haven't been down to CV for at least five years so I'm not sure what state it is all in now, but my guess is the bolts are still in the chopped state. Not Monster Munch, because as stated previously, that was re bolted (in stealth manner) after the chopping.

As an aside their is a very good boulder problem, called the Gnome, on the massive boulder called the Gnome, albeit a bit of a scary approach, for a timid boulderer type.

Andy W

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Pasted below agenda (I think) for the meeting Oct 2010.

BRITISH MOUNTAINEERING COUNCIL
A meeting of the South West Area will be held at 19:30 on Saturday 2nd Oct 2010 at the Count House, Bosigran.
Refreshments (curry meal) provided afterwards
If anything to be discussed on this agenda gives rise to a conflict of interest for anyone, please declare it at the start of the meeting.
Agenda
1. Minutes of last meeting – matters arising 2. Feedback from National Council
3. Regional Development and Activities
a) Area endorsement for Lands End Climbing Club fixed protection statement (see below) b) Area endorsement for Penwith and Cornish climbers’ fixed protection statement (see
below)
4. Any other Business Close and refreshments
Next Meeting Dates and Venues November, in Gloucester - date to be confirmed.
Lands End Climbing Club fixed protection statement
On 15th September the Lands End Climbing Club committee met to discuss the forthcoming BMC Area Meeting in Penwith. The clubs policy on fixed protection has now been summarised into the following statement after receiving unanimous support:
In line with agreed BMC policy and overwhelming local and national consensus, the Lands End Climbing Club opposes the placement of fixed protection on Cornish sea cliffs and natural inland outcrops. Furthermore, the club proposes that existing fixed protection is removed and damage to rock repaired where possible.
In light of the recent chipping and drilling debacle at Lands End, the continued presence of bolted routes at Carn Vellan and many historical bolts and drilled pegs currently rotting away, the club would like endorsement for our policy on fixed gear from the BMC Area Meeting.
Penwith and Cornish Climbers’ sport climbing statement
Following discussions and careful consideration of all the issues over the past several years Penwith and Cornish climbers have formed a policy in relation to sport climbing. The policy is driven by certain simple overriding truths, such as:
1. Cornwall as a region should be treated with parity with any other regional climbing area in the UK (especially in so far as sport climbing is concerned).
2. Penwith and Cornish climbers who wish to develop sport climbing in Cornwall should have the same opportunity to develop crags in their local areas just like the rest of the UK.
The policy has the support of Penwith and Cornish climbers; is consistent with agreed BMC policy and is supported on a national basis. The policy is as follows:
• Penwith and Cornish climbers may develop sport climbing at certain specific Cornish venue/s excluding all natural granite cliffs/outcrops;
• The selection of those venue/s will be based upon a coherent, rational and logical basis, relevant factors may include whether-
• there are verified and repeated existing trad lines;
• whether there has been a history of sport climbing;
• the BMC’s approval of the use of the venue in question; and
• its suitability for sport climbing by comparison to other national sport climbing
venues.
The policy is not to be construed as an approval or tacit acceptance of the chipping or manufacture of protection/holds that has taken place recently or historically in connection with trad climbing. This policy for sport climbing, therefore, should not be conflated with any other aspect of climbing.

cheque

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Yes, it seems like the status quo is daft and out of kilter with the rest of the UK.

 :agree:

As with the other recent BMC meetings, numbers were shipped in for the voting, swaying the result. My guess is that if it had been left to locals, then re bolting would have been favoured, there was and probably still is a fair few that would have been keen to climb these routes.

Excuse my ignorance but where were the anti-bolt voters shipped in from and by who?

Another question for Cornish climbers- to what extent do you think the anti-bolt, anti-sport feeling in Cornwall has been shaped by the actions of “habitual line-stepper” Medwards?

petejh

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In the words of the famous mountaineer Beyonce, what goes around comes back around.

shark

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In the words of the famous mountaineer Beyonce, what goes around comes back around.

You watching Glastonbury highlights too?

Andy W

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Yes, it seems like the status quo is daft and out of kilter with the rest of the UK.

 :agree:

As with the other recent BMC meetings, numbers were shipped in for the voting, swaying the result. My guess is that if it had been left to locals, then re bolting would have been favoured, there was and probably still is a fair few that would have been keen to climb these routes.

Excuse my ignorance but where were the anti-bolt voters shipped in from and by who?

Another question for Cornish climbers- to what extent do you think the anti-bolt, anti-sport feeling in Cornwall has been shaped by the actions of “habitual line-stepper” Medwards?

The anti bolters were from up country ;) My argument at the time was that the situation should have been decided by a local consensus. In answer to the second question, the anti Edwards feeling was predominantly non local.

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What does 'up country' mean? As far as I'm aware you need to be a BMC member and that being your local area on contentious or formal BMC area votes. I wish I'd spotted this yesterday as I was climbing with two SW area volunteer officers and could have asked.

Andy W

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What does 'up country' mean? As far as I'm aware you need to be a BMC member and that being your local area on contentious or formal BMC area votes. I wish I'd spotted this yesterday as I was climbing with two SW area volunteer officers and could have asked.
It’s a relative concept... if you live in Penwith, anywhere ‘up country’ would be past Truro.

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I remember driving down to redruth school for the big vote in the later debate when the very sensible proposals were put forward by Andy, Barney et al.

Couldn't believe how many people were there and a lot from Bristol if i recall. The same bunch who had cut Simon Youngs bolts on the north Cornish coast with in days of the first ascent and the same guys who got lured to Pentire a few years ago when someone trolled them by saying they had put a bolt in the crux of Eroica at Pentire. You shouldn't laugh.. They were there within hours shame the bolt wasn't.

Obviously different ends of the spectrum but shows how virulently anti bolts that group were at the time/still are?

You don't have to be a member to attend  do you? I've been to meetings without being a member?

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What does 'up country' mean? As far as I'm aware you need to be a BMC member and that being your local area on contentious or formal BMC area votes. I wish I'd spotted this yesterday as I was climbing with two SW area volunteer officers and could have asked.
It’s a relative concept... if you live in Penwith, anywhere ‘up country’ would be past Truro.
Growing up in St Tudy (Wadebridge/Bodmin), I was classed as “almost living in Devon” and “Up country”...

I remember the battles in the late ‘80s, before went into the Navy in ‘89. I always thought the “old” anti-everything tossers that dominated the local scene (not in numbers, just in volume of shouting) would die out. By the time I sold my house in Wadebridge in ‘97 and moved to France/Turkey, it was still a thing. I didn’t miss it, or the climbing, and just went and swung on Euro bolts, in the sun. The climbing scene, then, in the Ardeche was just so much more pleasant. Plenty of trad up on the Granite, sat alongside bolted faces, aside from the Sport in the gorges. Living there, as opposed to just holidaying as I had before, I really came to appreciate how Nimby-ish, petty and committee choked, my climbing life in the UK had been.

When I returned to Europe in 2008 and started climbing again, I didn’t actually involve myself in the “scene”, only stumbling across UKB by accident when looking for beta on some problems near Barcelona. That lead to me checking out, and running away from, UKC; which I still refuse to use without holding my nose.

I am sooooo glad to see my fellow Cornishmen have progressed almost into the 21st century, in the 20 years since it began...

macca7

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To be fair i dont think there were actually that many Cornishmen who were anti the bolts although as you say they certainly were the loudest!

It was the large group that came from out of the county that ensure the sensible proposals didn't get passed.

Definitely needs looking at again

 

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