[Joe Lawson]

Well the way UKC logbooks work is with crag moderators to be in place to edit information for crags they are familiar with, it's not a perfect system but it works and most people are fairly happy with it. If this annoys you then I'd maybe suggest trying out one of the websites with a logbook feature that allows you to log climbs at whatever grade you feel like e.g 8a.nu or 27crags etc.

[old cheese]

Well the way UKC logbooks work is with crag moderators to be in place to edit information for crags they are familiar with, it's not a perfect system but it works and most people are fairly happy with it. If this annoys you then I'd maybe suggest trying out one of the websites with a logbook feature that allows you to log climbs at whatever grade you feel like e.g 8a.nu or 27crags etc.

That’s not what I am suggesting Joe. I don’t think that would be helpful. I would think trusting what the first ascentionist (Who I guess would know his onions) and wait until more of a consensus rather than hearsay of a couple of mates and tall climbers beta.

[old cheese]

Well the way UKC logbooks work is with crag moderators to be in place to edit information for crags they are familiar with, it's not a perfect system but it works and most people are fairly happy with it. If this annoys you then I'd maybe suggest trying out one of the websites with a logbook feature that allows you to log climbs at whatever grade you feel like e.g 8a.nu or 27crags etc.

That’s not what I am suggesting Joe. I don’t think that would be helpful as all sorts of egos would bandy weighted opinions about which is clearly what ‘moderators’ seem to be able to do on UKC. Who moderated you? I guess it’s up to us. Just because you might find something easy does not mean it is. We all know climbers are getting stronger and a move like that could suit a board climber.

I would think trusting what the first ascentionist (Who I guess would know his onions) and wait until more of a consensus rather than hearsay of a couple of mates.

[Joe Lawson]

To be honest it's the short climbers rather than the tall saying it's easier. It's been a while since the first ascent and this was seemingly the consensus it's been coming to.

But if you're going to continue to throw your toys out of the pram over the issue I'll change it back as I never thought ammending a grade on UKC with a justifiable reason would cause such offence.

[old cheese]

Sorry Joe, I have avoided getting  personal but you have. I am not throwing my toys out of the the pram at all. I am asking just what measure you use to downgrade problems. You have offered sod all

you say its consensus? Look at UKC and see the consensus there! There isn’t any.

you say that you have justification? All you said is that you spoke to a couple of people.

What I do know is what you said to someone which I don’t think could have been taken out of context

Do what you like. You are twisting this into something it’s not.

[Ru]

The voting on UKC is interesting. From 1-2 votes for OWIA6 and A6 Girl yesterday morning, there's now 19 votes, including a bunch of daft low grades like low 7b+. Prior to yesterday everyone seemed to take 7c+  - all 8a.nu entries are at 7c+ and every post I can find on Instagram takes 7c+. It's like Grooved Arete again.

[T_B]

19 sends of Working 9-5 stand, 4 votes at mid 7c+, but it’s gone down to 7c. The shorties will be loving that one 

[T_B]

Joe - as crag mod can we have some more info for The Wave seeing as folk are logging the problems? Might take the pressure off Lees? I know a couple of years ago it was hush hush but I thought that was less about access and more about the projects having not been done. But presumably anyone operating at 8b+ knows about it now? Thanks.

[Bonjoy]

The voting on UKC is interesting. From 1-2 votes for OWIA6 and A6 Girl yesterday morning, there's now 19 votes, including a bunch of daft low grades like low 7b+. Prior to yesterday everyone seemed to take 7c+  - all 8a.nu entries are at 7c+ and every post I can find on Instagram takes 7c+. It's like Grooved Arete again.

Yes, I had a look yesterday and noticed this! Looks like a recent crop of votes, including a number of bottom of the table outliers. Does looks suspiciously like grudge voting (not by anyone on here I'm sure!). Which is another good reason auto grade changing based on votes is not a great idea.
  I remember the Grooved Arete argument!

[Davo]

19 sends of Working 9-5 stand, 4 votes at mid 7c+, but it’s gone down to 7c. The shorties will be loving that one 

Ouch. There goes one of my 7C+s!! To be fair I am 5 foot 11 and thought it was probably bottom end but I certainly found it harder than Paint it Black. Personally I would have thought low 7C+ was fair ...

[Nike Air]

 
Where is this then?

Joe - as crag mod can we have some more info for The Wave seeing as folk are logging the problems? Might take the pressure off Lees? I know a couple of years ago it was hush hush but I thought that was less about access and more about the projects having not been done. But presumably anyone operating at 8b+ knows about it now? Thanks.

[grimer]

Where is this then?

Joe - as crag mod can we have some more info for The Wave seeing as folk are logging the problems? Might take the pressure off Lees? I know a couple of years ago it was hush hush but I thought that was less about access and more about the projects having not been done. But presumably anyone operating at 8b+ knows about it now? Thanks.

You obviously don't climb hard enough to know!

[Nike Air]

Where is this then?

Joe - as crag mod can we have some more info for The Wave seeing as folk are logging the problems? Might take the pressure off Lees? I know a couple of years ago it was hush hush but I thought that was less about access and more about the projects having not been done. But presumably anyone operating at 8b+ knows about it now? Thanks.

You obviously don't climb hard enough to know!

  yes there is that!

[Offwidth]

The voting on UKC is interesting. From 1-2 votes for OWIA6 and A6 Girl yesterday morning, there's now 19 votes, including a bunch of daft low grades like low 7b+. Prior to yesterday everyone seemed to take 7c+  - all 8a.nu entries are at 7c+ and every post I can find on Instagram takes 7c+. It's like Grooved Arete again.

There have been several joke grades and a few deliberate incorrect spoiler grades that I know for a fact have been inserted on UKC route logs. To help stop this they should be recording grade votes with the user names... those misusing the system risk looking like a knob or a fool.

[36chambers]

The voting on UKC is interesting. From 1-2 votes for OWIA6 and A6 Girl yesterday morning, there's now 19 votes, including a bunch of daft low grades like low 7b+. Prior to yesterday everyone seemed to take 7c+  - all 8a.nu entries are at 7c+ and every post I can find on Instagram takes 7c+. It's like Grooved Arete again.

There have been several joke grades and a few deliberate incorrect spoiler grades that I know for a fact have been inserted on UKC route logs. To help stop this they should be recording grade votes with the user names... those misusing the system risk looking like a knob or a fool.

I'm starting to think the 8a.nu approach is the best for grading. You can take what grade you like and everyone knows who's picked what grade. It's been reassuring in the past, when I've seen people of my statue giving personal grades for certain problems.

[Duma]

I've always thought that you should have your user attached to a grade vote. Tbh I'd go as far as having to register a successful (non anonymous) ascent to be able to vote, though that obviously biases morpho problems toward those suited as mentioned upthread.

In Joe's defence, I'm sure being crag mod is a thankless task, and no one likes getting their project downgraded, whether or not its justified! (Just glad I did The Hatchling before the new Rocklands guide came out and gave it 7C!)

Disclaimer, never been to Lees Bottom, and prob never will.

[RobK]

There have been several joke grades and a few deliberate incorrect spoiler grades that I know for a fact have been inserted on UKC route logs. To help stop this they should be recording grade votes with the user names... those misusing the system risk looking like a knob or a fool.

Agreed. As far as I can tell it doesn't let you vote more than once for the grade so there might be some sort of capacity built in for this?

[turnipturned]

I'm starting to think the 8a.nu approach is the best for grading. You can take what grade you like and everyone knows who's picked what grade. It's been reassuring in the past, when I've seen people of my statue giving personal grades for certain problems.

Shame the recent update has turned 8a.nu into complete shite and I can't actually log anything anymore. Good timing though, won't be logging anything for a long time until by collarbone attaches itself back to my shoulder.

[Joe Lawson]

Ok final one from me as this has gotten quite out of hand. Firstly 'Old Cheese' made this personal to me from the get go and throughout by twisting hearsay from a conversation at a crag where he was not present, then anonymously posting online in an attempt to make me look bad. Not to mention comments regarding things being easier for the tall etc.
This thread being started in the manner that is was and the continuation of comments to that affect would constitute to throwing toys out of the pram.
It really does seem that this ascent seems to be some sort of culmination of your climbing efforts and I don't want to be the one to take that away from you so I have reinstated the grade as not to cause bad blood, hope you enjoy it. All I was trying to achieve as a crag moderator was to keep grades on the logbooks in keeping with people opinions but really isn't worth this level of agro.
With regards to the Wave, it is not my place to reveal details of it to the greater public, I will leave that up to the developers of the crag as they see fit.

[Nike Air]

With regards to the Wave, it is not my place to reveal details of it to the greater public, I will leave that up to the developers of the crag as they see fit.

Cool I'm sure someone will want to be the first.

[r-man]

 

With regards to the Wave, it is not my place to reveal details of it to the greater public, I will leave that up to the developers of the crag as they see fit.

The wave was first developed by Dan Warren, in 2006. He no longer lives nearby and I don't think he climbs much anymore.

[SA Chris]

Because  #boulderinggradesmatter

[Will Hunt]

Starting to wish that I'd taken 8A for Oops at Brimham, then maybe I'd be cool enough to climb there.

[36chambers]

Starting to wish that I'd taken 8A for Oops at Brimham, then maybe I'd be cool enough to climb there.

Climbing higher grades doesn't make you cool, look at Footwork.

[Yoof]

The voting on UKC is interesting. From 1-2 votes for OWIA6 and A6 Girl yesterday morning, there's now 19 votes, including a bunch of daft low grades like low 7b+. Prior to yesterday everyone seemed to take 7c+  - all 8a.nu entries are at 7c+ and every post I can find on Instagram takes 7c+. It's like Grooved Arete again.

There have been several joke grades and a few deliberate incorrect spoiler grades that I know for a fact have been inserted on UKC route logs. To help stop this they should be recording grade votes with the user names... those misusing the system risk looking like a knob or a fool.

The voting thing is interesting, having been on both sides of it. Most of the time if I think a grade needs changing I'll vote rather than writing "7C." to look 'ard in front of everyone. Anonymous voting does give the plus of an ego-less downgrade/upgrade, and I figured that would be how most people treat it. Downside of that is you don't get any sort of "easier for the short"-type information.

For super popular climbs that are on the border it seems that a lot of people use the voting for a slight bit of (maybe subconscious) self-affirmation (look at Three Pebble Slab votes), probably the case if people are psyched or don't have much experience of a grade.

In contrast the anonymous grudge-voting/downgrading Bonjoy mentions feels pretty shitty when it's your FA people are voting on. One of mine that I was mega psyched on was given 10(!) "chuck it in the bin" votes and several downgrade votes.  I'll bet that not all of the voters had tried it. Not sure if it would have been better or worse with names attached...

To summarise:
(1) You can't trust anyone's opinion whether it's anonymous or not.
(2) People vote on grade and quality based on how big they think their dick is, or on how psyched they are to have done a climb, or sometimes honestly how they found it.
(3) Everything is subjective, and therefore all grades should come with a +/- 3 grade margin.