[teestub]

In this context - I’m surprised that anyone who doesn’t literally have a crag within a short distance of their house is going out - or trying to self justify it. As for people climbing in groups - clearly not all from the same household - 🤦‍♂️

People just don’t seem to get that it’s WORSE than in March/April and some are behaving like it’s October...

We also know now that a lot of the transmission risks posited during the first lockdown are not a thing, like getting it from fomites left on crimps or whatever. We are all heavily modifying our behaviour to reduce the risk of contracting and spreading Covid in scenarios where there’s actually a risk.

Sorry you’re stuck in Manchester! 

[abarro81]

Imagine if some science types had written a report about the new variant, say, just before Christmas.. making it obvious that relaxation was dumb and we should be in lockdown... Oh wait... At what point do you stop being morally obligated to clean up other people's mess?

[Davo]

In this context - I’m surprised that anyone who doesn’t literally have a crag within a short distance of their house is going out - or trying to self justify it. As for people climbing in groups - clearly not all from the same household - 🤦‍♂️

People just don’t seem to get that it’s WORSE than in March/April and some are behaving like it’s October...

I appreciate that things are worse but could you explain why driving to a crag on your own and bouldering makes a difference to transmission?

[Oldmanmatt]

There is widespread reporting today that the present surge in covid cases, hospitalisations and fatalities are present far worse than the March\April wave - and set to get worse.

The number of deaths at today’s rate (that will increase - but will dip - I know) equates at 500 000 a year. By a disease spread by people being near to other people - that is now 50-70% better at being transmitted than in March. 

In this context - I’m surprised that anyone who doesn’t literally have a crag within a short distance of their house is going out - or trying to self justify it. As for people climbing in groups - clearly not all from the same household - 🤦‍♂️

People just don’t seem to get that it’s WORSE than in March/April and some are behaving like it’s October...

Yes, but today’s record deaths, does not yet tally up with the record days for detected new infections or admissions. That’s some time off yet, 10 days or more. Rough projection from infection to death numbers looks like closer to 3k per day (with a lower bound of 1.5k, but we’re almost at that already, so I’m guessing the peak is going to eye watering, even if it doesn’t hit 3k).
So, people will get it, it’s going to be virtually impossible to keep denying the severity.
Might not be so bad, it could be that a huge number of the detected cases are amongst people who simply won’t progress that far.

[Oldmanmatt]

Imagine if some science types had written a report about the new variant, say, just before Christmas.. making it obvious that relaxation was dumb and we should be in lockdown... Oh wait... At what point do you stop being morally obligated to clean up other people's mess?

I can’t remember, are you a parent?
Coz I’m at 15 years now and it looks like I’ve got another 8 to go, minimum.
My mum says 50, though, so I’m not holding my breath.

[mark s]

Google maps works reasonably well for showing county borders.
Eg, enter "south Yorkshire" and it shows the border clearly.
Same for post code areas.

Just in case you have to show your reasons for claiming to be local

I've got a screenshot of my home location and map showing my local area as leek East and upper hulme if I get stopped by the police on the staffs crags. Got it off the government's local map for covid deaths.

[Bradders]

There is widespread reporting today that the present surge in covid cases, hospitalisations and fatalities are present far worse than the March\April wave - and set to get worse.

The number of deaths at today’s rate (that will increase - but will dip - I know) equates at 500 000 a year. By a disease spread by people being near to other people - that is now 50-70% better at being transmitted than in March. 

In this context - I’m surprised that anyone who doesn’t literally have a crag within a short distance of their house is going out - or trying to self justify it. As for people climbing in groups - clearly not all from the same household - 🤦‍♂️

People just don’t seem to get that it’s WORSE than in March/April and some are behaving like it’s October...

I'm going to keep saying it again, and again, and again; just because all of the above is true, DOES NOT mean activities that don't make it worse should stop. Especially where those activities will help people get through what is likely to he a very long period with some remaining sanity.

[Oldmanmatt]

There is widespread reporting today that the present surge in covid cases, hospitalisations and fatalities are present far worse than the March\April wave - and set to get worse.

The number of deaths at today’s rate (that will increase - but will dip - I know) equates at 500 000 a year. By a disease spread by people being near to other people - that is now 50-70% better at being transmitted than in March. 

In this context - I’m surprised that anyone who doesn’t literally have a crag within a short distance of their house is going out - or trying to self justify it. As for people climbing in groups - clearly not all from the same household - 🤦‍♂️

People just don’t seem to get that it’s WORSE than in March/April and some are behaving like it’s October...

I'm going to keep saying it again, and again, and again; just because all of the above is true, DOES NOT mean activities that don't make it worse should stop. Especially where those activities will help people get through what is likely to he a very long period with some remaining sanity.

I’ve stayed out of this, this time around.

Because it’s pointless. It doesn’t matter that going climbing isn’t an infection or spread risk.
I get that it should matter and it shouldn’t be a issue.
The only issue anybody actually has, is whether what you’re doing is going to be easily justifiable to a pissed off copper, an irritable landowner or nosy dog walker, because, if not, you will be having a lot of fun and blood pressure issues. Possibly a lighter wallet to ease your walk back to the car.

I mean, are there a lot of people who truly value approval from the UKB massive before they go climbing?
I’m not convinced said pissed off copper is going to be up for reading umpteen pages of UKB posts about why it’s ok for you to have driven from Plymouth to Stanage for ten minutes climbing and four hours staring at the rock, or doing that weird Tai Chi shit we do when we’re trying to workout the beta.

Just bugger off somewhere quiet, don’t advertise your intent and be thankful for some fresh air and call it training.

[tomtom]

Everyone can and will make their own decisions. And questions and answers here about the legality or not are important.

We’ve discussed to a large degree the role of example setting and common societal behaviour wrt covid.

What really fucks me off is that 1 or 2 days into lockdown - I read on SM reports of groups of climbers at Burbage - including at least one person from UKB clearly not in household bubbles. That’s exactly what we shouldn’t be doing - any of us - and people need to understand that.

I know the below is NOT the case for all posts in this thread - but some posts really feel like they are seeking justification for doing what they probably shouldn’t do.

If you do need this justification - well you probably really know you shouldn’t be going out.

(And what Matt said - last para)

[webbo]

As Matt and Tom said. All I can add is those that are so desperate to get out I just wonder how you would cope if you get injured.

[Bonjoy]

There is an argument that THE ONLY potential harm caused by (local and social distanced) bouldering, is the encouragement of other non-stay-at-home behaviour. As such the ideal is to quietly get on with it and not advertise in any way. But how can I put this... It's really really bloody hard to do that when people keep popping up online making egregious statements that demand to be challenged. In other words, both 'sides' need to apply the same self discipline and keep their views to themselves for this ideal to have any chance of success.

[Stu Littlefair]

I’d agree with that Jon.

I think the issue of wether or not to go climbing might be a bit of an unproductive discussion and it would be more useful to put more effort into encouraging the “socially distanced” part of the equation.

Every time I’ve been out somewhere even slightly busy people have not been socially distancing at the crag - there seems to be a general opinion that outdoor transmission is impossible. That was never true and is a more dangerous assumption now.

It’s depressing to hear of large groups at the crag in the last few days. It’s not like it’s hard to keep 2m apart in the burbage valley

[webbo]

To be honest I don’t really care if you are throwing your pads over your garden fence and nipping up to your local crag. However if and it’s a big if you get pulled over by the police and fined whether it’s lawful or not. It will come back to bit us in the longer term.
There are crags that are now no longer accessible because of people climbing in the first lockdown.

[turnipturned]

Reckon I’m probably more likely to end up in A&E if I attempted to run rather than driving 5 mins to go climbing.

Or climb on something that you made in your garage 

[moose]

Anyone else almost hoping the UK weather comes to the rescue with constant rain that makes hand-wringing about definitions of "local", "exercise", and "necessary"  a moot point! 

[tomtom]

Good points Jon and Stu - though unlike back in March no one has said there should be no climbing. As Stu says it’s about making it clear that distancing is important. See fiends thread.

[teestub]

Or climb on something that you made in your garage 

Tru facts! I've caused myself far more injury at home training than I ever have out at the crag 

[webbo]

Apparently Derbyshire police have issued a “ climb down” in that there is no legal limit on how far to travel and all fines will be reviewed. This according to a thread on Bikeradar.

[RobK]

Apparently Derbyshire police have issued a “ climb down” in that there is no legal limit on how far to travel and all fines will be reviewed. This according to a thread on Bikeradar.

Link here with NPCC guidance.

https://www.derbyshire.police.uk/news/derbyshire/news/news/forcewide/2021/january/force-welcomes-new-guidance-from-npcc-around-about-travelling-during-lockdown/

[Bradders]

There is an argument that THE ONLY potential harm caused by (local and social distanced) bouldering, is the encouragement of other non-stay-at-home behaviour. As such the ideal is to quietly get on with it and not advertise in any way. But how can I put this... It's really really bloody hard to do that when people keep popping up online making egregious statements that demand to be challenged. In other words, both 'sides' need to apply the same self discipline and keep their views to themselves for this ideal to have any chance of success.

Well said.

Sorry to have taken out my frustrations on here, I feel very strongly about it. At the end of the day though it's all unbelievably insignificant when you consider what others are doing (for example, I learned earlier that my brother in law drove from Leeds to Warrington and back today, to see his Grandma..... ).

I think it was Bonjoy who also said, a long time ago in this thread, that, try as we might, middle class dads aren't going to save the world from this thing.

[spidermonkey09]

Apparently Derbyshire police have issued a “ climb down” in that there is no legal limit on how far to travel and all fines will be reviewed. This according to a thread on Bikeradar.

Not before it ended up on the front page of the Times tomorrow though, which was maybe the whole point. I do wonder whether it will have the opposite effect to what was intended though.

https://www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk/

[SA Chris]

There is an argument that THE ONLY potential harm caused by (local and social distanced) bouldering, is the encouragement of other non-stay-at-home behaviour. As such the ideal is to quietly get on with it and not advertise in any way. But how can I put this... It's really really bloody hard to do that when people keep popping up online making egregious statements that demand to be challenged. In other words, both 'sides' need to apply the same self discipline and keep their views to themselves for this ideal to have any chance of success.

Rule number 1 of Boulder Club...

[Ru]

Apparently Derbyshire police have issued a “ climb down” in that there is no legal limit on how far to travel and all fines will be reviewed. This according to a thread on Bikeradar.

Good. The over zealous policing and handing out of unlawful fines is pretty unforgivable when the law is almost identical to that in the lockdowns last year, and several police forces got their hands slapped back then for doing the same things.

[cheque]

Apparently Derbyshire police have issued a “ climb down”

Sensible really, jumping off is unnecessarily risky.

[Johnny Brown]

Also worth noting the context of local rates of infection. Yorkshire and Humber currently has the lowest in the country and my attitude to recreation will take that into account.

Things do look very bad in the south-east, but I'm hopeful the timing of the lockdown in this region was not so tragically late.