[teestub]

But you are a committed contrarian, I'll grant you that.

It is amazing the Pete fits in his advocacy work for Satan alongside all his other interests 😄

[Sidehaas]

Whether the exercise of essential or not is immaterial. With the exception of, I think, shopping, there is no distinction in this guidance between those activities which are essential or non-essential, only between those which are reasonable and unreasonable.

In the law, for exercise to be a reasonable excuse for being outside your home, it also has to be reasonably necessary. That's not quite the same as essential, but it's not nothing either. There definitely has to be a need .

[Johnny Brown]

Ok fair enough Pete. I have to say I don't at all mind people skiing (apart from the mad jealousy) but I'm not sure I'd be spraying it on the socials given the context.

I'm not really convinced there is much solidarity for taking an unnecessarily hard line on recreation restrictions, nor a net mental health benefit once shaming those who don't toe the line is accounted for.

[petejh]

I'm not judgmental of people, I'm just surprised at attitudes. Given the propensity for lower-leg injuries in skiing (look it up if you need to) - and especially skiing Welsh powder with hidden rocks lurking beneath a shallow base - I'm a bit surprised at people's attitudes to it in the current context. I think it has a lot to do with the novelty of decent snow in Wales clouding judgement of relative risks.

I'm fairly certain many of the same people would look on with displeasure at downhill mtn bikers risking broken limbs.. Or of me going out and doing a new grade IX winter FA.

[Wil]

Interesting to see that The Scotsman have written a piece defending keeping Scottish golf courses open.

You would really have to have been out on a golf course yourself in the Covid world, though, to see that the sport provides one of the safest environments you could probably find at the moment and also an important outlet from a mental perspective to people of all ages but the older generation in particular.

I'm not sure we'll see the same for low-level hill walking, although it's the travel that's the issue for that. I count myself lucky to have Arthur's Seat and the Pentlands close enough to access.

[SA Chris]

Have you got desperate enough to boulder at Arthur's Seat yet?

[Anti]

Let’s not forget that this lockdown is taking place in winter, in Britain. No matter what stance we each take on climbing it’ll be a moot point most of the time because the rock will be wet anyway.

Despite multiple, frequent attempts to use my two days a week furlough to break the law with some bouldering I've been fantastically shut down by the weather. When it's been clear and dry there's been snow on top of everything. When the snow melted there's been no wind to dry out the rock. When the wind came it brought the rain with it.

I ought to start cycling again. Just kidding.

[lagerstarfish]

I watched a hill walking program on TV last night and enjoyed it.

help me

[mrjonathanr]

Give it a try (when the guidance allows). You’ll soon be cured.

[SA Chris]

Take a couple of the kids, walk til they get moany and hangry. That'll cure you for sure.

[mark s]

The weather is stopping climbing, not Boris.
I cannot remember the last morning I opened the curtains and thought " yes, what time shall I go climbing"
It's snowing now in leek and white over from last night.

The getting injured side of the argument for not climbing has never really concerned me, as the chance is very low and if you did need hospital help. You are totally separate from the covid areas. The accident side of hospitals isn't under the stress the covid parts are. Although not wanting to get injured is a personal desire.

We will know more as the new guidance beds in. Staffs police do like chasing covidiots and hunt sabs.  Anyone seen the video of staffs police making up fake crimes to search and question the sabs in Longnor?

[mrjonathanr]

No, do you have a link? Interesting that, given hunting is illegal and protest isn’t.

Not sure about the distinction between Covid safe and unsafe areas in hospital tbh. I think it’s pretty much all hands on deck right now, and will get worse before it gets better.

[RobK]

The getting injured side of the argument for not climbing has never really concerned me, as the chance is very low and if you did need hospital help. You are totally separate from the covid areas. The accident side of hospitals isn't under the stress the covid parts are. Although not wanting to get injured is a personal desire.

I still don't really know where I stand on the whole climbing during lockdown thing. However I can tell you that this is absolutely not true. For context, my partner is an A&E doctor. Where do you think all the covid patients go when they are first admitted? That's right, A&E. They are currently under far more strain than during the first lockdown and it is impacting their levels of care across the board. I don't want to go into specific details but they are having to make some pretty uncomfortable decisions right now. And if for any reason you are needed to be admitted, even for a short period of time, at the current >100% capacity levels, it has potentially fatal consequences for someone else.

[lagerstarfish]

Waiting times for ambulances are increasing*.
I won't be doing anything that increases my chance of needing one.

*(In Sheffield)

[mark s]

No, do you have a link? Interesting that, given hunting is illegal and protest isn’t.

Not sure about the distinction between Covid safe and unsafe areas in hospital tbh. I think it’s pretty much all hands on deck right now, and will get worse before it gets better.

https://www.facebook.com/376472612370010/posts/4203219143028652/

[dr_botnik]

No, do you have a link? Interesting that, given hunting is illegal and protest isn’t.

Not sure about the distinction between Covid safe and unsafe areas in hospital tbh. I think it’s pretty much all hands on deck right now, and will get worse before it gets better.

https://www.facebook.com/376472612370010/posts/4203219143028652/

I was so glad that this related to the hunt sabs and wasn't that link to video of "empty hospital wards" that had been filmed by some of the antimask brigade. In an outpatients department. On a weekend.

Getting back on topic: i bought a microtraxion and a static rope after the first lockdown just incase but i assumed the "meeting one other outside for exercise" meant roped stuff was fair game? ( https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay-at-home )
It's certainly felt busier on the roads this time around, but i just put that down to people getting things sorted after a haphazard announcement. Will we reach the same levels of fidelity as we did last march? I'm certainly ready to consider climbing burbage valley or even further afield this time around

[SA Chris]

The weather is stopping climbing, not Boris.
I cannot remember the last morning I opened the curtains and thought " yes, what time shall I go climbing"
It's snowing now in leek and white over from last night.

Strangely, we have no snow whatsoever in coastal Aberdeenshire. It's a clear frosty morning, expect conditions will be mint by midday, oh to be unemployed again. Might walk down to the coast and boulder for an hour at lunch. Grab it while I can, home schooling starts next week

[mark s]

No, do you have a link? Interesting that, given hunting is illegal and protest isn’t.

Not sure about the distinction between Covid safe and unsafe areas in hospital tbh. I think it’s pretty much all hands on deck right now, and will get worse before it gets better.

https://www.facebook.com/376472612370010/posts/4203219143028652/

I was so glad that this related to the hunt sabs and wasn't that link to video of "empty hospital wards" that had been filmed by some of the antimask brigade. In an outpatients department. On a weekend.

Getting back on topic: i bought a microtraxion and a static rope after the first lockdown just incase but i assumed the "meeting one other outside for exercise" meant roped stuff was fair game? ( https://www.gov.uk/guidance/national-lockdown-stay-at-home )
It's certainly felt busier on the roads this time around, but i just put that down to people getting things sorted after a haphazard announcement. Will we reach the same levels of fidelity as we did last march? I'm certainly ready to consider climbing burbage valley or even further afield this time around

Oh no I fully understand what a mess we are in. I joined a fb group called empty hospitals or something yesterday. I really got them wound up. My phone nearly melted with the pings from replies. I lasted about 2 hours before I got blocked.

[Ru]

The new amendment regs have been been published but as yet there is no official consolidated version online (although they are due today). After a quick look though them it looks as though there is no longer an exception to the restriction on leaving your home for the purposes of outdoor recreation. This leaves the exception for reasonably necessary outdoor exercise. So we're back to the original question from the first lockdown of whether climbing is "reasonably necessary exercise."

[SA Chris]

Assume that's England only Ru?

[SA Chris]

You might be able to come up with extremes that sort of only fall into one category (a picnic), but the vast majority are both.

Fishing? clearly recreation, but not really exercise?

[Ru]

These are actually the new Tier 4 regs for the UK. Bit unclear what's happened to be honest and I'm trying to juggle reading the regs, doing some work and home schooling.

[AJM]

These are actually the new Tier 4 regs for the UK. Bit unclear what's happened to be honest and I'm trying to juggle reading the regs, doing some work and home schooling.

The amendment file says at the bottom of p4:

for the words in part 3 (tier 4 area) substitute:
“Every area of England, apart from the territorial waters adjacent to England and the
airspace above England and those territorial waters, is within the Tier 4 area.”.

I'm not in any way a lawyer but from an uninformed standpoint that might be the key which allows this UK wide legislation to be relevant only for England?

[nai]

You might be able to come up with extremes that sort of only fall into one category (a picnic), but the vast majority are both.

Fishing? clearly recreation, but not really exercise?

Statement from the Angling Trust on the national lockdown rules
UPDATE – January 5, 2021

Whilst the regulations have not yet been published we have been informed this evening by the Cabinet Office that the Government have taken the decision that fishing in England will not be permitted during this national lockdown period. Whilst this is disappointing news I would ask anglers, fisheries and clubs to respect these rules and the reason they have been put in place; to help save lives and support the NHS.

Individuals should not go fishing from midnight tonight (5th January) and clubs and fisheries should close their waters to anglers.

[Loafer007]

Under travel it says:

● outdoor exercise.This should be done locally wherever possible, but you can travel a short distance within your area to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)

To me that suggests that Eastern Edges are the type of open space they are thinking of

This to me, would mean that driving a short distance (<10 miles) to access open space in the peaks is probably considered OK. Whether that is for climbing, running or walking.

That was the legislation/guidance that changed during the first lockdown that allowed everyone to climb again.

Wasn't this the same legislation/guidance for the November lockdown? Seems to me that the only difference is schools are closed. No one stopped climbing/walking/running in the peaks last time and no one was fined for it.

It's a 20 min drive for me to take my son to nursery/work (Uni in laboratory) and 5 min and 7 min to Gardoms and Burbage, respectively, so my conscience is clean with respect to local. I'll only be climbing on my own and certainly not shouting about it. I'll also try and avoid busier times (whatever they are now).

If the police question me, I will be honest. If they say that is not allowed, then I know where I stand. I doubt they will fine for that as a first offence and given the obvious grey area around this..... However they may take a more hardline stance on someone travelling from 40,50-80 miles away.