[Bradders]

If a villager is advised to stay within their village and you're advised to stay in your own part of a town or city, then driving out of the city and potentially past several other villages is maybe not quite what I'd have assumed they have in mind?

Key part there is "driving...past". I.e. in your car, not stopping for a sarnie in the local cafe (mainly because you can't now), etc., without being anywhere near anyone else, meaning transmission risk is zero. Which to me makes the "local" and once per day restriction completely disproportionate and unnecessary.

[Oldmanmatt]

Sheffield postcode but I see your point 

80% of the county of Cornwall has a Plymouth post code. Plymouth isn’t even in Cornwall.
When I was growing up, St Tudy where I lived, had a PL30 code. To drive to Plymouth, in those days, took almost two hours...

[Oldmanmatt]

If a villager is advised to stay within their village and you're advised to stay in your own part of a town or city, then driving out of the city and potentially past several other villages is maybe not quite what I'd have assumed they have in mind?

Key part there is "driving...past". I.e. in your car, not stopping for a sarnie in the local cafe (mainly because you can't now), etc., without being anywhere near anyone else, meaning transmission risk is zero. Which to me makes the "local" and once per day restriction completely disproportionate and unnecessary.

Don’t try and bring logic into this.

The government have avoided it for nearly a year, they’re not going to start now.

[nai]

It's a tricky one, I did check it on the Gov website last week to confirm if it was still Tier 3 (it was) and have been to Roche today.  But it is 17 miles away...

As Chris say, having a maximum radius would be good to work with

[shark]

Under travel it says:

● outdoor exercise.Thisshouldbedonelocallywherever possible, but you can travel a short distance within your area to do so if necessary (for example, to access an open space)

To me that suggests that Eastern Edges are the type of open space they are thinking of

[Bradders]

They won't do a radius, and what's been published so far is only guidance anyway, so if they re-use the same legislation (likely) it'll then be up to the interpretation of the police officer who stops you. I'm guessing you're pretty unlikely to be stopped if you're travelling on your own, so feel happy applying my own reason / logic to it; I.e. stay away from everyone else and you're alright no matter how far you're travelling.

[205Chris]

It's a tricky one, I did check it on the Gov website last week to confirm if it was still Tier 3 (it was) and have been to Roche today.  But it is 17 miles away...

As Chris say, having a maximum radius would be good to work with

Ironically I have less concerns going to Stanage now under it being 'local' than I would have done when it involved travelling from a Tier 3 into a Tier 4 area.

Under Tier 3, Stanage was off limits but Meadowhall was open. Go figure.

[AJM]

I'm not going to claim to be familiar with all of them, but Google tells me it's a 20min drive from central Sheffield to stanage, which seems rather difficult to square with:

"If you do leave home for a permitted reason, you should always stay local in the village, town, or part of the city where you live."

If a villager is advised to stay within their village and you're advised to stay in your own part of a town or city, then driving out of the city and potentially past several other villages is maybe not quite what I'd have assumed they have in mind?

I'm which case the Government should make the guidance crystal clear and not open to interpretation.

i.e. Stipulate a maximum radius you can travel within from your home address

In one way I'm entirely with you - I think if they want you to do something then they should put it into law and therefore write something that's plausibly legally enforceable.

In another way though, given it is guidance, I'm not sure there's any way the intent of it could be made more clear without putting a number out there is there?

I phrased my response as a question, but I guess I can't see any way of interpreting that guidance which says it's ok to drive out of your part of your city and potentially through a different part of your city and then some other towns and villages before starting to do your exercise.

From the first bit -

"exercise with your household (or support bubble) or one other person, this should be limited to once per day, and you should not travel outside your local area."

That I could buy as being a bit vague. But when it's finished off with:

"You should always stay local in the village, town, or part of the city where you live"

Then that vagueness basically falls away. "Local area" is, for a Sheffielder, "the part of the city where you live"

[nai]

it's the type of open space absolutely everyone is thinking of at the moment.

[nai]

It's a tricky one, I did check it on the Gov website last week to confirm if it was still Tier 3 (it was) and have been to Roche today.  But it is 17 miles away...

As Chris say, having a maximum radius would be good to work with

Ironically I have less concerns going to Stanage now under it being 'local' than I would have done when it involved travelling from a Tier 3 into a Tier 4 area.

Under Tier 3, Stanage was off limits but Meadowhall was open. Go figure.

True, no longer restricted to S yorks.
Colleagues of my wife were aghast that we stayed in T3 while everyone around went to 4 because they said the T4 folk would travel to Meadowhall to shop.  Did have a bit of a WTAF at that but apparently people would do that

[mark s]

Roaches and ramshaw is without doubt local to me,  I won't go to the churnet though as that's 10 miles and certainly not what I'd call local to myself.
During the 1st lockdown I was stopped by the police at ramshaw and they wanted to know where I was from. When I said leek, they said that's OK. They were around a fair bit.

[AJM]

If a villager is advised to stay within their village and you're advised to stay in your own part of a town or city, then driving out of the city and potentially past several other villages is maybe not quite what I'd have assumed they have in mind?

Key part there is "driving...past". I.e. in your car, not stopping for a sarnie in the local cafe (mainly because you can't now), etc., without being anywhere near anyone else, meaning transmission risk is zero. Which to me makes the "local" and once per day restriction completely disproportionate and unnecessary.

I'm not going to argue whether the guidance makes sense or not or whether you want to follow it. I've already had that argument with myself about whether I should ignore the travel restriction guidance to go out bouldering on my own (or rather, with my 3 year old) for exactly those reasons - I don't stop, I don't meet people, I don't go in places etc etc. I don't need to have it with anyone else 

My point was only that I couldn't see any way that it was actually following the guidance i.e approaching it with the mindset that you're ignoring the guidance for reasons xyz rather than that what you're doing is in line with it

[tomtom]

Back to the board tomorrow then.

[nai]

Think of the good it did you last time

[Offwidth]

The detailed advice:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949536/NationalLockdownGuidance.pdf

[Bonjoy]

If a villager is advised to stay within their village and you're advised to stay in your own part of a town or city, then driving out of the city and potentially past several other villages is maybe not quite what I'd have assumed they have in mind?

Key part there is "driving...past". I.e. in your car, not stopping for a sarnie in the local cafe (mainly because you can't now), etc., without being anywhere near anyone else, meaning transmission risk is zero. Which to me makes the "local" and once per day restriction completely disproportionate and unnecessary.

I'm not going to argue whether the guidance makes sense or not or whether you want to follow it. I've already had that argument with myself about whether I should ignore the travel restriction guidance to go out bouldering on my own (or rather, with my 3 year old) for exactly those reasons - I don't stop, I don't meet people, I don't go in places etc etc. I don't need to have it with anyone else 

My point was only that I couldn't see any way that it was actually following the guidance i.e approaching it with the mindset that you're ignoring the guidance for reasons xyz rather than that what you're doing is in line with it

That logic doesn't take into account people living on or close to the edge of the city.

[Will Hunt]

The detailed advice:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949536/NationalLockdownGuidance.pdf

The advice on travel for exercise there is:

● outdoor exercise. This should be done locally wherever
possible, but you can travel a short distance within your area

What is your area under the regs? I presume they are these:
https://www.gov.uk/guidance/full-list-of-local-restriction-tiers-by-area

So West Yorkshire is one area?


I suspect more clarity will come in the next few days. I'm sure the document that OW linked has been updated since the 8pm announcement.

[lurcher]

Last week I couldn't go to Sheffield walls as just in Derbyshire T4, if following guidance.  Some walls eg climbing works made that very clear. Fair enough.  I stayed home

OK that was to go inside, but surely if you're in sheffield then using the 'stay local to your area guidance' then 'all the Eastern edges' from sheff is taking the piss.   

[tomtom]

The detailed advice:

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/949536/NationalLockdownGuidance.pdf

The bit that’s not covered in any of the previously posted quotes
“
 Public outdoor places include:
● parks,beaches,countrysideaccessibletothepublic,forests ● publicgardens(whetherornotyoupaytoenterthem)
● thegroundsofaheritagesite
● Playgrounds”

Wonder if Nat Trust places will stay open? If so that would be quite a barometer (for me) as to whether we’re in March or May style restrictions (if that makes sense)

[moose]

My interpretation is that I can still drive to go climbing, but I'll have to muster keenness for projects at Ilkley Cow & Calf and Rocky Valley (just as well I've plenty to go at... having ignored the crags 1-2 miles from my house until now).

[dunnyg]

Might see you up there moose (from a distance).

[nai]

surely if you're in sheffield then using the 'stay local to your area guidance' then 'all the Eastern edges' from sheff is taking the piss.   

Depends how you define Easternn edges? Stanage to chatsworth for me, southern areas a separate group. I'd try to stick to Burbages  being closest but it's always rammed recently whereas the plantation and parking (£) can be deserted. So what's best.

[Sidehaas]

For Sheffielders I would view Eastern Edges, Rivelin, Wharncliffe and Anston as local. Anything else would be stretching the definition.

I'm not going to claim to be familiar with all of them, but Google tells me it's a 20min drive from central Sheffield to stanage, which seems rather difficult to square with:

"If you do leave home for a permitted reason, you should always stay local in the village, town, or part of the city where you live."

If a villager is advised to stay within their village and you're advised to stay in your own part of a town or city, then driving out of the city and potentially past several other villages is maybe not quite what I'd have assumed they have in mind?

In which case the Government should make the guidance crystal clear and not open to interpretation.

i.e. Stipulate a maximum radius you can travel within from your home address

It says to stay in your local village, town or part of a city Chris. Much as I hate to say it, I think the guidance now is clearer than it has ever been. It definitely rules out climbing unless you have somewhere in the boundary of the local part of a city or the town you live in. That doesn't really allow anyone in a city to drive in to their local countryside. (Edit to add, it also says explicitly in the exercise guidance to minimise the time you spend away from home.)
These are the rules as they were in March but written down rather than assumed. With the guidance being so clear, it seems very likely that a policeman would consider driving for exercise to be outside the bounds of what is considered a reasonable excuse under the law. Note that outdoor recreation is also stopped - so you aren't allowed to be sitting around outside while having a rest between attempts. It's exercise only.

(The guidance even says you can still get an MOT, but only if you are someone who has a legal reason to drive your car. Since everyone has a legal right to exercise, the right to exercise is obviously not now considered a right to drive for it, otherwise that guidance would be superfluous.)

I carried on climbing through all the previous restrictions since May but I'm going to stop now. I totally understand if some people judge the risk of transmission to be negligible and the chance of getting caught to be low enough that for them a trip is worth the risk - but I think they should do so knowing they are almost certainly breaking the law.

[tomtom]

I’m sure in a few days it’ll become apparent what is and isn’t tolerated - in whether or not Derbyshire police decide to drone shame walkers again etc...

But for me for now it’s what Sidehaas said. My nearest rock is 20 miles away... seems pretty clear that’s not local. If it becomes apparent in a few weeks that is fine/tolerated I’ll reconsider.

[lurcher]

surely if you're in sheffield then using the 'stay local to your area guidance' then 'all the Eastern edges' from sheff is taking the piss.   

Depends how you define Easternn edges? Stanage to chatsworth for me, southern areas a separate group. I'd try to stick to Burbages  being closest but it's always rammed recently whereas the plantation and parking (£) can be deserted. So what's best.

Bell Hagg for 6 weeks for your sins.. .

But seriously I think if Burbage is rammed then it means most people will be ignoring guidance. Although I expect the general busyness will be determined by non climbers as ever.. As others noted a lot will depend I think on what the police do in the peak, if anything - that may have the biggest effect on what folk do ie can I get away with it. ..