[Ru]

That may be the case, but it hasn't stopped him doing it. And I doubt it would do anyone any favours to be pointing out his error if challenged.
This was my point earlier, that the BMC's article may have inadvertently made things more difficult for any climber getting challenged.

The policeman in question was a climber posting on UKC in a hypothetical way, I don't think there are any actual instances of the BMC's advice affecting police decisions. Police feedback to the BMC has been the opposite way as far as I am aware - i.e. tell your members to stop climbing. My view is that the BMC should advise based on their own interpretation of the law and the other factors, to the best of their ability, which is what I believe they did, but they didn't get it completely right. They would need to be very careful about changing their advice on the off chance that the Police will use it to abuse their powers because they then risk giving incorrect advice (or increase the risk if we accept that the actual advice wasn't spot on in its analysis anyway).

The difficulty of giving good advice in this situation should not be underestimated. Whatever is said is going to be a compromise of competing factors that cannot please everyone. If the BMC leave their conclusions vague (i.e. make your own mind up) they risk lots of people taking the piss and annoying other agencies or landowners with whom they work who have come to stricter conclusions. if they say you can climb, they risk being wrong (and people taking the piss) and if they advise against climbing they annoy those who feel their right to make their own mind up has been removed.

Going forwards, the BMC will probably be attempting to influence the government's decisions about loosening the lockdown in favour of allowing climbing to restart. Part of that will be showing that the climbing community can self police. That argument is strengthened if, to date, climbers have been behaving in the spirit of the lockdown rather than seeking to explore the limits of the current restrictions.

[Oldmanmatt]

Regards large carpark such as Stanage Plantation. Volunteer car park attendants could be a way forward. Climbers might be willing to hang around the Plantation carpark for a midweek morning if that was the price of climbing there in the afternoon. The attendant would direct people entering to suitable spaces (not next to people leaving a vehicle), and as people leave, to form a distanced queue if too many teams are returning to vehicles at once. Or whatever other common sense rules are devised.

And...

We’re back to wardens.

Better that climbers are policed by climbers, if it's that or not climbing.

I know, I posited it about four thousand eleventy two pages back (in the Patel numbering system) and it didn’t go down well.

[tomtom]

Commissars surely instead of wardens? 😃

[Johnny Brown]

Oh yeah, because you're an organisation, and the general trend for organisations is to suck in all around them to justify their significance and grow funding. Who benefits? Not the members.

That's the bottom line for most of my disdain for the BMC's stance

Yes, I assumed that was your point. But it's not how they or any other representative org works, although I disagree that the point of significance is to grow funding. I see it from the angle that you can't credibly represent a user group on things such as access without having a significant percentage of that user group as members. I don't see a model for an alternative unless you can point me at one?

I would be much more comfortable (and I made these points in the meeting) if the first line of the BMC policy was 'the BMC have no power to ban climbing and hillwalking or to close mountains and crags'. I don't agree either with the advice to put all climbing and hillwalking on hold. It should have been something like 'stay local, stay solo, stay safe'. But that policy was put in place during the initial panic over secondary effects and now we are not in a position to change it without attracting massive attention. But we are where we are and there's not too much point bemoaning the initial response in a very tight spot, particularly as there seemed very little time or space for sensible debate, and I can't find a similar organisation with a significantly different stance - even surfing only manages to say "Our preference is to stay out the water. We hope you will join us, and the thousands of surfers who are standing in solidarity with the NHS" - I'm not sure that sort of virtue signalling would make me much happier tbh.

And as Ru has pointed out the main issue right now is the regs, the legal position is sufficiently unclear that the only way to know if climbing would contravene the regs is to get arrested and contest your fine in court.

[SA Chris]

Commissars surely instead of wardens? 😃

A tsar in charge?

[danm]

I'm nominating Barrows for the job as Warden for the Tor. Uniform can be a pair of knee pads.

[tomtom]

I'm nominating Barrows for the job as Warden for the Tor. Uniform can be a pair of knee pads.

Worn as epilettes?

[Murph]

Van man replied to comments on his minus ten raven tor video to say that the Peak Ranger, the Police and the BMC have all said he is absolutely fine to climb. And that envy isnt a good trait to have...

Just thought I would share that. It's all out there in the open I've not spied on anyone or filmed them in secret.

I still think it's just taking the piss out of all the stay-at-home climbers within striking distance of the peak.

[abarro81]

I'm nominating Barrows for the job as Warden for the Tor. Uniform can be a pair of knee pads.

Lockdown has aged me...

[tomtom]

Van man replied to comments on his minus ten raven tor video to say that the Peak Ranger, the Police and the BMC have all said he is absolutely fine to climb. And that envy isnt a good trait to have...

Did he answer Wills question about where he got his orange trousers from?

[kac]

I trust what he has said about as much as his grades. As well as climbing at the tor Its pretty unbelievable this selfish idiot is putting his videos on youtube. The latest one hes even fist bumping his spotter. If my aim in life was to be a selfish prick I would be envious of him.

[nai]

You'd think after six weeks of living in a van those yellow trousers would be minging. Wonder how he keeps them so clean.

[webbo]

Maybe he washes them in his own piss, hence clean looking and yellow.

[Oldmanmatt]

Maybe he washes them in his own piss, hence clean looking and yellow.

He needs to drink more.

[shark]

Live Q&A with Rob Dyer, BMC Access Officer (England) at 12.30 tomorrowtoday via the BMC Facebook page

www.facebook.com/BritishMountaineeringCouncil/

Think you have to download the Facebook app to participate

[Bonjoy]

Going forwards, the BMC will probably be attempting to influence the government's decisions about loosening the lockdown in favour of allowing climbing to restart. Part of that will be showing that the climbing community can self police. That argument is strengthened if, to date, climbers have been behaving in the spirit of the lockdown rather than seeking to explore the limits of the current restrictions.

Agreed. As things stand the BMC can point to climbers as having shown exemplary compliance. However if the BMC delay constructive push-back, there is a growing risk that compliance will start to go down. In time there will be some/more negative media such as MR callouts to climbers, and the persuasive value of our collective compliance will be weakened. Now seems a good time to me to be attempting to influence government.

[shark]

I put the point across yesterday to Dave T et al that an easily digestible (and hopefully acted upon) proposal to government / public bodies should categorise the different levels of (contamination) risk (incorporating advice) with a view to a graduated return with things like solo bouldering and hill walking at the bottom of the risk categories and crowded climbing gyms at the top.

[SA Chris]

Sketching up collapsing ice routes in the middle of the Cairngorms you wouldn't touch in a normal year should surely be at the top?

[nai]

climbing gyms

Why would the BMC be concerned with what walls in the US are doing?

[Bradders]

Sketching up collapsing ice routes in the middle of the Cairngorms you wouldn't touch in a normal year should surely be at the top?

Not from a contamination perspective 

[petejh]

Perhaps don't cycle to go climbing sketchy collapsing ice-falls as that would massively increase the risk.

[SA Chris]

Sketching up collapsing ice routes in the middle of the Cairngorms you wouldn't touch in a normal year should surely be at the top?

Not from a contamination perspective 

Depends how long the virus survives on your corpse after it's been retrieved.

[Bradders]

[onlineclimber]

 I spotted the following by the entrance to Robin Hood's Cave today... 

https://www.dropbox.com/s/eiawyaqxin04bgg/IMG_20200502_180850_7.jpg?dl=0

...if the crags were busy with walkers and climbers this would be a lot less likely. Hopefully this doesn't help elsewhere 

tied to embed the image but it it didn't seem to work must be a newbie thing 

[webbo]

Why don’t you actually say what your agenda is. Or does everyone have cross reference with UKClimbing.