[ali k]

You can use language to make the decisions more palatable - for e.g. 'like nearly everyone in any business, we're going to keep going till categorically told to stop.'
'until categorically told to stop' - appeal to authority. The rule doesn't outlaw it so it is acceptable to do. If the rule didn't categorically tell you not to jump off cliffs, would you jump off cliffs?

Not as simple as that Pete. Unless the government forces these sites to close then companies not attending to provide the services are legally in breach of contract.

[Paul B]

Are they NEC ECC contracts? If so my understanding is that there are two things that the PM can never instruct, one being something illegal, the second being something unsafe. I'm assuming it's not that simple (and my learning on the subject is limited).

[teestub]

Word from our weird corner of the environmental/construction world is that the supply chain across the country (including plant, quarries and waste disposal) is shutting down, so will be surprised if construction stays viable for much longer.

[SamT]

Word from our weird corner of the environmental/construction world is that the supply chain across the country (including plant, quarries and waste disposal) is shutting down, so will be surprised if construction stays viable for much longer.

This is happening. Builders merchants are shutting around the place as they are essentially shops.

[abarro81]

What seems weird is that the merchants are shutting but hardware stores are allowed to stay open. Is this a difference in categorisation or just a miscommunication?

[SA Chris]

Hardware stores now closing.

Well B&Q at least.

https://www.expressandstar.com/news/uk-news/2020/03/24/bq-closing-stores-on-tuesday-as-sports-direct-condemned-for-staying-open/

As for Sports Direct, he should be shot. Anyone wanting a decent pair of trainers to run in would avoid the crap he peddles like a virus.

[ali k]

there are two things that the PM can never instruct, one being something illegal, the second being something unsafe.

Neither of which apply when the Government guidance is that construction sites can remain open if social distancing is carried out. The simple fact is that if businesses are debating whether to stay open or not they're highly likely to come down on the side of staying open unless forced to close either by HMG or public pressure as with Sports Direct this morning.

[abarro81]

Hardware stores now closing.

Well B&Q at least.

Weird, given that the list of stores on Guardian/BBC explicitly includes them in the ones allowed to be open. Presumably some stores need to be open so that plumbers, builders etc can get materials/parts for emergency fixes e.g. broken boilers/toilets, problems with gas pipes etc?

[duncan]

Thoughts on 2.5 hour runs being posted on Strava this morning? Feels like the running world needs to get its act together. I’m as much a runner as a climber thesedays and I can’t see how long runs could be considered “staying at home”. I’ll be doing short local runs and focusing on strength work.

You could define a local run as: 'could limp home from any point if you badly sprained your ankle.' 

[Stabbsy]

Which is where we were last week, hence why I went out on Kinder on Sunday accepting that would be it for the foreseeable.

Anyway, I think it’s pretty unambiguous here with the key word being *minimising*:

1. STAYING AT HOME
You should only leave the house for one of four reasons.
● Shopping for basic necessities​, for example food and medicine, which must be as infrequent as possible.
● One form of exercise a day, for example a run, walk, or cycle - alone or with members of your household.
● Any medical need​, or to provide care or to help a vulnerable person.
● Travelling to and from work​, but only where this absolutely cannot be done from home.

These four reasons are exceptions - even when doing these activities, you should be minimising time spent
outside of the home and ensuring you are 2 metres apart from anyone outside of your household.

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874742/Full_guidance_on_staying_at_home_and_away_from_others__1_.pdf

Tom, the problem with this is that it's conflicting advice so I can see why there's disagreement. Go outside to exercise, but minimise your time outside - so a quick 100m down the road and back inside? I don't see how you can achieve both, so you need to define what is "normal" for exercise and that's going to be personal. The guidance has been written in short order so there's bound to be loopholes, so it's not about following the letter of the law, it's about being sensible. On that basis, I totally agree with what you said on Gia's Strava feed, that was clearly taking the piss in my opinion.

I think the euro guidance (French?) of less than 2km from home is good and clear and that's what I've decided to follow. Luckily for me that gives me plenty of scope, but there's still some paths I'll avoid at certain times/all of the time. Boredom threshold is then going to limit how long I run for. For some people, the 2km "rule" would bring them into contact with more people, so I can see why they might choose to do something different.

[Muenchener]

I'm not preaching to anyone, or saying don't, just make your own choices and be sensible.

I am. People should very clearly not be climbing now. My position has evolved like everyone elses, but anyone continuing to climb now while everyone else is sacrificing the things they love is a selfish twat.

I generally visit family in .uk in the school summer holidays (looking unlikely this year), and post on the ukc partners forums when I manage to get away for a few days. Have had some good times & met some great folks by doing so, but the list of obvious twats I would turn down offers to climb with has grown dramatically in the last week or so.

[Paul B]

Neither of which apply when the Government guidance is that construction sites can remain open if social distancing is carried out. The simple fact is that if businesses are debating whether to stay open or not they're highly likely to come down on the side of staying open unless forced to close either by HMG or public pressure as with Sports Direct this morning.

I don't disagree, I just don't get how with standard welfare provisions (drying rooms, toilets, canteens, morning briefings etc.) you (people) can comply with the SD requirements:

https://twitter.com/AlanWolfson/status/1242326859985104897?s=19

[ali k]

I just don't get how with standard welfare provisions (drying rooms, toilets, canteens, morning briefings etc.) you (people) can comply with the SD requirements:

Exactly. It gets to the point where if you applied the social distancing measures rigorously then such little work would actually get done that it makes staying open a moot point anyway 

[Paul B]

This should probably be on the other thread but at what point are the employer not providing sufficient PPE for such a situation  .

[Bonjoy]

This should probably be on the other thread but at what point are the employer not providing sufficient PPE for such a situation  .

What concerns me more is how much PPE will be expended in lower risk situations on construction site etc, which would more usefully be transferred to the nhs to protect front line staff. Again greater clarity from the govt is required, to free up a huge reservoir of masks, gloves, disposable overalls etc.

[SA Chris]

You could define a local run as: 'could limp home from any point if you badly sprained your ankle.'

I think this sums it up well. Sadly (sensibly) on a bike I think it should also mean where you can walk home from carrying the bike if you have a major mechanical failure if you don't have a household member who can retrieve you.

[Oldmanmatt]

I'm not preaching to anyone, or saying don't, just make your own choices and be sensible.

I am. People should very clearly not be climbing now. My position has evolved like everyone elses, but anyone continuing to climb now while everyone else is sacrificing the things they love is a selfish twat.

I generally visit family in .uk in the school summer holidays (looking unlikely this year), and post on the ukc partners forums when I manage to get away for a few days. Have had some good times & met some great folks by doing so, but the list of obvious twats I would turn down offers to climb with has grown dramatically in the last week or so.

Yup.

I just spent a few minutes talking over the wall with the neighbour at the bottom of the garden. Just into her 80’s, she cares for her disabled Granddaughter (who’s parents died when she was 14) and is still reeling from her husband’s death in December.
The Granddaughter is just 18, very sweet, but definitely not, mentally, able to cope alone. She came back with the shopping while we were talking. She’s so panicked about her Grandmother. Very hard to watch. Definitely got some pollen in my eyes, so made an excuse about needing to make lunch.
Just cannot see myself writing people off because they’re vulnerable or just unlucky.
I mean, ffs, how do I know my kids or my partner are not amongst the unlucky that can’t produce the antibodies?
 
Saw a FB post that struck a chord:

People saying “it’s only 3% lethal”.
Fine, here’s 100 M&Ms, three of them will kill you, still hungry?

[205Chris]

Reports online of police stopping people in the Peak checking their reasons for travelling.

[SA Chris]

Good. Hard to BS your way out of it with a couple of pads and a rucksack full of kit on the back seat..

[Fiend]

Interesting discussion about running and cycling.

Any pro-tips for someone who can't rely on lower limb based CV exercise as attempts to do so are quickly curtailed by lack of venous return in legs, and instead has had to rely on single lengthy / full day sessions of steady full body / upper limb focused exercise to maintain a healthy level of activity?? Obviously this previously could have included mixed gym sessions, swimming, etc, but errr, not any more.

[dunnyg]

Get a boxing bag? Maybe a bit intense for you rather than lengthy though. Never done nibs any harm.

[SA Chris]

Tough one Matt. Let me ponder.

[Oldmanmatt]

I second the bag routine option.

Club swinging, is a great aerobic upper body workout. Clubs can be improvised with dumbbells, if you have them.

If you have a barbell, quarter/bow staff exercises with a small weight at one end.

[dunnyg]

Looking at getting a cheap one (bag), but hanging options are limited. Not sure I can face laps of the garden, though I did see someone ran a marathon on a small balcony in Spain or Italy!

[mrjonathanr]

You could try a free yoga class tonight at 7.00 pm Fiend. Matt’s the real thing, in a world of of pseudoYoga £££studioS. Interesting back story, swapping the Hacienda for the Ashtanga mat.

Gotta be worth a punt; you might like it

https://mailchi.mp/yoga-manchester/re-online-free-yoga-sessions-with-matt-ryan?e=5076284740