[Bonjoy]

I don't think the poll attached to this thread is particularly valid. I suspect the consensus is moving  and people's vote yesterday or the day before may not necessarily match their view today or tomorrow.

[Stuart Anderson]

No outdoor climbing statement on UKC

https://www.ukclimbing.com/forums/ukc/outdoor_climbing_-_time_to_put_it_on_hold-717370

Assume the BMC will do something similar in due course...

https://www.thebmc.co.uk/climbing-and-hill-walking-its-time-to-put-it-on-hold

[shark]

I don't think the poll attached to this thread is particularly valid. I suspect the consensus is moving  and people's vote yesterday or the day before may not necessarily match their view today or tomorrow.

I’ll pull it and run again to see for sure

For the record the poll results are/were:

Views on climbing outside at the moment

Ok with it 4 (3%)

Ok at unpopular crags and using social distancing 18 (13.6%)

Ok with above if on own or with someone in household 63 (47.7%)

Don’t climb outside full stop 41 (31.1%)

Undecided 6 (4.5%)

Total Members Voted: 132

[tc]

I don't think the poll attached to this thread is particularly valid. I suspect the consensus is moving  and people's vote yesterday or the day before may not necessarily match their view today or tomorrow.

Yeah, I had the same problem with the one we had in 2016 

[mrjonathanr]

Merci jwi

[Bradders]

I don't think the poll attached to this thread is particularly valid. I suspect the consensus is moving  and people's vote yesterday or the day before may not necessarily match their view today or tomorrow.

Agree. I was very strongly a 3, but moved to a 4 yesterday.

Sounds like the decision might be taken out of our hands this evening anyway but TBC.

Would just like to thank everyone for the debate in this thread. There have been a lot of carefully reasoned and thoughtful points put across from all different angles and I think UKB has shown itself to be amongst the most considerate communities imaginable. I know personally I'm absolutely devastated to have had climbing taken away from me, at a particularly difficult time generally irrespective of the coronavirus, and I'm sure others feel the same or similar. The debate on here has really helped though. Thanks everyone.

[Will Hunt]

Thumbs up from the Dear Leader for one form of exercise a day.

[teestub]

Every climber who has already got a road bike or a pair of running shoes was one step ahead!

[Paul B]

Thumbs up from the Dear Leader for one form of exercise a day.

The way I interpreted that was from your house. Just me?

[Oldmanmatt]

Thumbs up from the Dear Leader for one form of exercise a day.

The way I interpreted that was from your house. Just me?

Buildering is about to become a thing again...

[Oldmanmatt]

[Will Hunt]

Thumbs up from the Dear Leader for one form of exercise a day.

The way I interpreted that was from your house. Just me?

I think that would be best.

[Bonjoy]

[GazM]

I'm still confused where this leaves me. It feels pretty daft to go out to work doing bird surveys at a time like this but he said travelling for work is ok if it can't be done from home.

[tomtom]

I'm still confused where this leaves me. It feels pretty daft to go out to work doing bird surveys at a time like this but he said travelling for work is ok if it can't be done from home.

Gaz - if your work is non essential - then I’d say no.

[petejh]

Thumbs up from the Dear Leader for one form of exercise a day.

The way I interpreted that was from your house. Just me?

People in the UK will only be allowed to leave their home for the following purposes:

Shopping for basic necessities, as infrequently as possible
One form of exercise a day – for example a run, walk, or cycle – alone or with members of your household
Any medical need, to provide care or to help a vulnerable person
Travelling to and from work, but only where this is absolutely necessary and cannot be done from home

I can see how you (not 'you', but people) could kid yourself and interpret the above, if you were desperate to stretch the interpretation of the rules as far as possible, to mean 'drive to a national park and go for a run (or a boulder etc.), drive home again'. Because being pedantic that's 'leaving your house to engage in one form of exercise'.

But again, why would you do that?
Should just add in the line - 'Leaving your house on foot or by bike, and only exercising within a local radius of xxkm.'

[GazM]

I'm still confused where this leaves me. It feels pretty daft to go out to work doing bird surveys at a time like this but he said travelling for work is ok if it can't be done from home.

Gaz - if your work is non essential - then I’d say no.

Yeah, I agree Tom, it's just annoying that I'm still having to read between the lines. I'll talk to the client tomorrow for their take.

[petejh]

I'm still confused where this leaves me. It feels pretty daft to go out to work doing bird surveys at a time like this but he said travelling for work is ok if it can't be done from home.

Gaz - if your work is non essential - then I’d say no.

This is still a problem until employers step up and show leadership. Currently lots of firms still keeping people at work for non-essential purposes given the circumstances. There seems to be plenty of employers - mine is guilty - of pushing the definition of essential work as much as possible, just as individuals have tried pushing the definition of essential travel and recreation.
I'm still driving into the office and making visits. Today I visited a petro-chem facility in the NW to view a job the client wants us to start within 2 weeks. Me plus 5 site engineers in a meeting discussing the job. There's no way the job is essential to society in this situation. But unless and until my employer steps up and says stay at home then I'm supposed to be continuing to turn up to work. As it stands I'm organising labour and equipment to be there. But I can't see it happening, just waiting for people to wake up. So many people are still in denial.
I have plenty of flexibility and no-one looking over my shoulder so can just work from home even if unofficially, which is what I've been doing except for when I really need to be in. But there'll be plenty of people for who it all depends on the employer making the call to shut down.

[teestub]

I'm still confused where this leaves me. It feels pretty daft to go out to work doing bird surveys at a time like this but he said travelling for work is ok if it can't be done from home.

There still seems to be some ambiguity with this that’s actually just down to where the word ‘essential’ appears. This guidance doc says you’re on travelling to and from work where this can’t be done at home

https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/874714/Full_guidance_on_staying_at_home_and_away_from_others.pdf

From here

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/full-guidance-on-staying-at-home-and-away-from-others

This page (which has changed colour to show how serious they are now) says only travel for ‘essential work’

https://www.gov.uk/coronavirus

[SA Chris]

Every climber who has already got a road bike or a pair of running shoes was one step ahead!

In my case several steps!

[GazM]

There still seems to be some ambiguity with this that’s actually just down to where the word ‘essential’ appears.

Absolutely. That last link is clearer and makes me much happier about my decision to stay at home. 

Not that strolling round forests looking for capercaillie  isn't essential.

[ali k]

Messaging is still clear as mud.

This is not a question of employers lacking leadership. It’s a question of the government lacking leadership.

Until they are specific about which businesses MUST close then of course the vast majority (including the self-employed) will continue to work. We’ve just had an email from the CEO of our company saying that the announcement tonight wasn’t clear and that site operatives must still attend sites where clients request it. Of course businesses are going to push the limits of what they think is essential work if they’re scared of putting off clients.

[petejh]

Don't know why the media are reporting the advice as 'crystal clear'.

Someone I know just messaged me this about going outside for recreation:

''I'm choosing to interpret it as broadly as possible! I think the government are hoping people will interpret it as narrowly as possible!''


Said like a member of the species that invented lawyers 

[Oldmanmatt]

As I understand it, and I may be wrong, we’re waiting for the publication of the list of essential businesses (tomorrow) and they were actually quite clear with addition of “other premises” in the non-essential category. Any employer “stretching” that, is begging for an almighty law suit should one of they’re employees succumb and have any basis for blaming work conditions.

I can’t see a future court or tribunal accepting that anyone saw this as anything other than the most extraordinary threat to life and limb since the war ended.

I would guess, if you go to work tomorrow, then begin displaying symptoms 12-14 days hence, then become critical etc etc; it would be hard for your employer to argue that you had not been exposed (based on that time frame) because you had attended work, for instance.

[Oldmanmatt]

Don't know why the media are reporting the advice as 'crystal clear'.

Someone I know just messaged me this about going outside for recreation:

''I'm choosing to interpret it as broadly as possible! I think the government are hoping people will interpret it as narrowly as possible!''


Said like a member of the species that invented lawyers 

Fortunately, this person is very likely to discover exactly what your average Copper thinks of amateur (or real, for that matter) lawyers....