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Boards for beginners. (Read 2614 times)

Fiend

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Boards for beginners.
March 11, 2020, 05:04:44 pm
Basically. Fiend is not a very good boulderer, so instead of trying to become a better boulderer he has decided to make his own achievements mean more by devaluing everyone else's.
Basically. Will is as fair and accurate as you'd expect. Indeed I spend many hours over multiple sessions per week pushing really hard with my posting of UKB discussion threads, and in comparison very occasionally when a vague idea strikes me, a mere 15 minutes casually bouldering outside, bouldering inside, going on a campus board/woody and at least one little complementary gym session / run, oh and watching my diet and daily stretching.

But say hypothetically it was the other way around and I actually spent a lot of time trying hard to become a better boulderer by the methods above - that would include one of my driven, focused sessions a week being on wood, indeed quite often the Substation system board. As someone who is not a REDS-ridden crimp waif ectomorphic outspewing of pure sinew, I have taken to this like a cat to water, but on the other hand I do quite like it because the holds are really skin friendly, the lights are pretty, and I feel it is partly working my weakness. But without this deteriorating into a Lattice-level pit of over-regimented misery, I do have some questions:

1. Fatigue during the session - I seem to get tired out unduly quickly. I'm pacing myself with plenty of rests and no newb-ish "jumping straight back on a near miss", and warming up well but not excessively. But it seems that burn-out happens much quicker than in a normal indoor session, in terms of amount of climbing time. Is this just a normal function of being relatively unused to volume at that angle??

2. Fatigue on steepish stuff the next day - I've noticed a bit of a correlation here. Climbing non-steep stuff after has been fine, but I've noticed a lack of power on steeper terrain the day after - more so than after a long indoor bouldering session (if skin survives) or even a campus/hanging session. Again, is this just the obvious reason??

3. Grades - I would ask why they are a complete and utter fictitious pack of lies that are particularly uninformative given the actual difficulty always varies from the given grade right up to a full Font number grade harder, but I suspect I'm not going to get a straight answer. Instead, is there any secret knowledge I'm missing for dealing with the ludicrous grade range?? Having to waste lots of time on ever single "Font 6B" problem having a good look, testing the holds, pulling on a couple of moves to work out where it is between 6B and 7B before trying it gets a bit tedious.... Is it just learning the board enough to quickly know what 6Bs are in the 6C-7A sweet spot, or is there some trick??

Ta x

remus

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#1 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 11, 2020, 06:19:11 pm


1. Fatigue during the session - I seem to get tired out unduly quickly. I'm pacing myself with plenty of rests and no newb-ish "jumping straight back on a near miss", and warming up well but not excessively. But it seems that burn-out happens much quicker than in a normal indoor session, in terms of amount of climbing time. Is this just a normal function of being relatively unused to volume at that angle??


Yeah that's pretty normal, especially if you dont climb on the board a lot. If you want to extend your session then Id say take longer rests between goes, especially when trying stuff at your limit.

Quote

2. Fatigue on steepish stuff the next day - I've noticed a bit of a correlation here. Climbing non-steep stuff after has been fine, but I've noticed a lack of power on steeper terrain the day after - more so than after a long indoor bouldering session (if skin survives) or even a campus/hanging session. Again, is this just the obvious reason??


Yes, it's the obvious reason.

Quote

3. Grades - I would ask why they are a complete and utter fictitious pack of lies that are particularly uninformative given the actual difficulty always varies from the given grade right up to a full Font number grade harder, but I suspect I'm not going to get a straight answer. Instead, is there any secret knowledge I'm missing for dealing with the ludicrous grade range?? Having to waste lots of time on ever single "Font 6B" problem having a good look, testing the holds, pulling on a couple of moves to work out where it is between 6B and 7B before trying it gets a bit tedious.... Is it just learning the board enough to quickly know what 6Bs are in the 6C-7A sweet spot, or is there some trick??

I've found it's largely about learning the board. Once you know which holds are decent and which are log it's relatively straightforward to get a feel for how hard a problem is going to be. You also tend to build up a bit of a repertoire of moves on a given board, so after a while you can start seeing similarities which really helps if you're trying to judge how hard something is going to be. e.g. I did a big move off that undercut last week, and this hold is a foot further away ergo it's gonna be desperate.

If you haven't done much board climbing before I'd say it'll take a good 8 to 10 sessions before things really start to click in to place. Stick at it and you'll be campusing through high quality, technical slab problems with feet flapping uselessly in your wake in no time

nai

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#2 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 11, 2020, 06:31:30 pm
Tempting as it is to post a link to the recent Lattice video about this

1. Power out happens quickly to start with, took maybe 6-8 sessions to build a bit of session endurance

2. Never noticed this, I did end the session as soon as I started to power down rather than fight through it.

3. Grades are all over the place, on the Moonboard you can filter just the "benchmarks" which gives you a fighting chance but they can still be ridiculous. Cos, yeah 6Bs go up 40 degree walls on first joint edges all the time. 
And they're morpho, I worked out which row of holds I could reach with feet on kick board and aything that was out of reach until you've got an alternative foothold I wouldn't bother with.
Likewise top moves, work out the row you can reach the top off and dismiss anything lower.
Although this changes as you learn to be more dynamic but varies depending on the holds. Time on the board learning your favoured holds the obvious answer.

Fiend

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#3 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 12, 2020, 09:06:12 am
Cheers guys. I'll stick with it - and use my extra resting time to make sense out of the holds / problems.

I once did a footless move on Honourary Caley at Stanage so maybe I'm on the right track...

tomtom

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#4 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 12, 2020, 09:33:33 am
Is this on the 30 or 50 at the Depot Fiend? Or the LED board at Macclesfield?

Ballsofcottonwool

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#5 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 12, 2020, 11:00:43 am

3. Grades - I would ask why they are a complete and utter fictitious pack of lies that are particularly uninformative given the actual difficulty always varies from the given grade right up to a full Font number grade harder,


Agree that the grades on boards are made up and only apply to that board. They've just changed the holds on the  Moonboard at AverticalWorld in Dundee from the 2016? to 2019 setup. I lanked my way up a 6B+ Benchmark on the old setup, I can't even climb to the top using all the holds on the new setup.

Because I am too weak to train anything other than strength and power on a 40 degree board I always use a timer to make sure I get at least 2-3 minutes rest between goes on the board.

Fiend

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#6 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 12, 2020, 08:30:27 pm
TT - Subby one. I wish the Depot 30' was symmetrical, all nice wood and lit up, you wouldn't get me off it. Apart from the Blob Wrestle sessions ofc.

tomtom

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#7 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 12, 2020, 08:47:59 pm
I really like the wood hold LED boards (forgotten their name). I use the 50 at the Depot but have a big soft spot for the 35 at Mad Volume which has the beast maker Ally footholds.. (chromedomes?). I swear itís harder to climb on that than the 50 with better footholds.

Iíve not manage to do anything on the BUK boards with their wooden dome footholds... but only been there once.

I much prefer them to the regular wall problems now... log on - have my projects and work through them.

Itís also quite good doing mirrors on the easier ones when warming up. Strange doing the same problem the other way..

Fiend

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#8 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 12, 2020, 08:50:38 pm
I don't tick a problem until I've done the mirror. Haven't noticed any glaring inequalities yet...

tomtom

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#9 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 12, 2020, 08:53:05 pm
I don't tick a problem until I've done the mirror. Haven't noticed any glaring inequalities yet...

Oooooh.. check you out training pedant 😃

I find placing my feet my biggest source of cock up on mirrors.

moose

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#10 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 12, 2020, 11:24:27 pm
TT - Subby one. I wish the Depot 30' was symmetrical, all nice wood and lit up, you wouldn't get me off it. Apart from the Blob Wrestle sessions ofc.

The Depot 30 in Pudsey is my "home" board - ratty crimps and pinches, tiny downward sloping footholds, it feels like a UK limestone simulator.   Might be better for training purposes if it was symmetrical but I quite like the variety of movement and hold styles the "splatter" arrangement allows (I have a home woodie that's rigorously symmetrical anyway). Mind you, I suspect this view might be more a subconcious desire to want to avoid public humiliation trying to use the 50!

galpinos

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#11 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 13, 2020, 11:31:23 am
The Manc Depot 30 is, imho, a far better board than the 50 for "normal" outside climbing. However, it takes some effort and having a partner to make stuff up with helps. If not, the ring binder has some ok problems in to get you started.

The 50 is very accessible in that you plug in the grade, choose a problem then voila! However, that type of board climbing is a specific skill (not that applicable to outdoor climbing in the UK imo) and improvement over the first few weeks always feels it is through learning to climb in that style, rather than strength gains. Does work the core though.

I'm more than happy with a mix of the 30 and the colour circuits, with a 50 session when on my own and devoid of inspiration.

Paul B

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#12 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 13, 2020, 01:19:18 pm
The Depot 30 in Pudsey is my "home" board - ratty crimps and pinches, tiny downward sloping footholds, it feels like a UK limestone simulator.

That's a great board. I still want a set of the Traingstone range for my home board but still can't find them anywhere.

The Manc Depot 30 is, imho, a far better board than the 50 for "normal" outside climbing. However, it takes some effort and having a partner to make stuff up with helps. If not, the ring binder has some ok problems in to get you started.

That is not a great board. Do you not find that there a large 'jumps' in hold size when you're not on the blobs?

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#13 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 13, 2020, 01:26:05 pm
I definitely prefer steeper boards because on shallow boards (e.g. 30 degrees) the holds, if slopey, are really conditions dependent and, if crimpy, tend to be bad for the skin.

Re: grades, as long as they are consistent I think it is fine for boards to be undergraded.

moose

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#14 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 13, 2020, 02:17:38 pm
The Manc Depot 30 is, imho, a far better board than the 50 for "normal" outside climbing. However, it takes some effort and having a partner to make stuff up with helps. If not, the ring binder has some ok problems in to get you started.

Isn't the Manc Depot 30 on the Stokd app?  The Pudsey equivalent has near 200 problems posted on it.

Paul B

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#15 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 13, 2020, 02:28:30 pm
Re: grades, as long as they are consistent I think it is fine for boards to be undergraded.

It depends. If you take it to the extreme then things get compressed to the point of being meaningless (useless?).

tomtom

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#16 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 13, 2020, 04:44:37 pm
I definitely prefer steeper boards because on shallow boards (e.g. 30 degrees) the holds, if slopey, are really conditions dependent and, if crimpy, tend to be bad for the skin.

Re: grades, as long as they are consistent I think it is fine for boards to be undergraded.

To me Iím really surprised how much Itís all in the footholds. On the 35 with sparse domes (madvolume) I climb on similar size holds - at similar difficulty - as the 50 with sharp oblongs for feet (depot).

Bradders

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#17 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 13, 2020, 05:18:52 pm
The 50 is very accessible in that you plug in the grade, choose a problem then voila! However, that type of board climbing is a specific skill (not that applicable to outdoor climbing in the UK imo) and improvement over the first few weeks always feels it is through learning to climb in that style, rather than strength gains. Does work the core though.

Couldn't agree more having recently been on the 50 (isn't it actually 55? It's certainly steeper than the Pudsey Depot 50 anyway) for the first time. In my opinion it is actually too steep! All the problems end up being based around jumping between jugs, which doesn't seem helpful at all for outdoor transference.

To me the Depot Pudsey 50 is the perfect balance between small, positive holds you can bone down on and steepness. I'm not a big fan of the 30 there because of the conditions dependent holds but I suppose I ought really to mix it up and use both.

I've not been on the Sheffield Depot board yet but if it's the same as the Ravenswall one it'll be very good.

If there's one board I'd avoid like the plague though it's the Moonboard. Awful.

RE grades; I moaned about this for ages but have come round now. I always thought they ought to be somewhat relatable to outdoor grades but now I think that, as long as they're consistent, it's helpful for things to be massively sandbagged. For what it's worth I think the Depot Pudsey 50 is pretty consistent based on the Stokt app grades.

Fiend

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#18 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 13, 2020, 10:05:28 pm
Manchester 30 is not symmetrical so can lick my baws.

Grades should be useful information so being actually informative is part of that. Subby ones all over the place.

Quite psyched to get back on it soon!

petejh

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#19 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 14, 2020, 09:05:48 am
Why is being symmetrical important to you for board climbing Fiend? I mean yes, I understand the concept.. but a good board will allow you to choose problems that test/train climbing in multiple orientations and each hand. Just pick the problems accordingly to work your weakness. I find very twisty cross-through moves on steep angle to be a weakness (find it hard to engage core at right moment), so I do some problems involving those moves, going each way.

Fiend

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#20 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 14, 2020, 09:18:01 am
Aesthetics and geekiness.

petejh

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#21 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 14, 2020, 09:19:16 am
You'd love the latticeboard.  :whistle:

tomtom

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#22 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 14, 2020, 11:46:56 am
Aesthetics and geekiness.

All about the ticks innit.

Fiend

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#23 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 15, 2020, 12:49:14 pm
Live reporting from the Subby 40. Wall is open. Signs up about hand-washing before and after - very sensible, I obeyed.

Am wearing a Cattle Decapitation vest but listening to old skool drum'n'bass.

Flashed Blurgh 6C on both sides. Now working Snort 6B for the 3rd session.

Have got newly resoled shoes with a stiff edge. Feels like cheating a bit.

Edit: given up on Snort. Can't do the move in isolation. Onto Dark Wood 6B for the 2nd session.

Edit 2: still can't do the one move 6C crux of Dark Wood 6B. Especially not after 6B+/C up until there. A bit closer tho.
« Last Edit: March 15, 2020, 01:18:33 pm by Fiend »

mrjonathanr

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#24 Re: Boards for beginners.
March 15, 2020, 04:32:06 pm
Their grades are all over the show. I did a 7A on Friday which was about 6A+. Conversely, I previously failed on a 6B there which was about 7B+.

 

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