[Fiend]

Latest figures also showed there were 8,474 people with Covid currently in hospital in England - the highest since March, but well below last winter's peak of more than 34,000.

Not all the patients in hospital will be being treated for Covid - about three in 10, according to latest data, have Covid but are in hospital for something else.

Quick question, anyone got the stats for how quickly the numbers are increasing for patients in hospital with and DUE TO covid, compared to patients with covid full stop (as above)?? (Obviously I know patients with but not due to covid are still a strain on the NHS due to whatever isolation / PPE / covid-secure measures they require).

[slab_happy]

Nothing subsequent to the Great Christmas Data Hiatus, but this is from the 23rd:

https://twitter.com/jburnmurdoch/status/1473982353580175365

And a breakdown in percentage "with" and "for:" https://twitter.com/JamesWard73/status/1473964874535419909

Specifically on London hospital data.

I believe it's taken from the Primary Diagnosis Supplement here:

https://www.england.nhs.uk/statistics/statistical-work-areas/covid-19-hospital-activity/

[Fiend]

Asked and answered!

[slab_happy]

Can generally rec Ward and JBM for data nerding, along with Meaghan Kall ( https://twitter.com/kallmemeg ), who very deservedly got a write-up as one of Nature's 10 people shaping science in 2021 for her Covid science communication work:

https://www.nature.com/immersive/d41586-021-03621-0/index.html#section-EQqzpXoePk

[Offwidth]

And a breakdown in percentage "with" and "for:" https://twitter.com/JamesWard73/status/1473964874535419909

Such deadpan delivery.... that thread is a absolute classic scientific put-down of Alison Pearson's twaddle about 'hospitalisations with covid'.

[slab_happy]

You'd think a mic drop like that might give Pearson pause, but that's not what the Telegraph pays for!

https://twitter.com/JamesWard73/status/1475887309555998728

[slab_happy]

Interesting thread on the dip in the "for Covid" percentage, and whether that's another indicator of reduced severity in Omicron, or because it's a fast-growing variant and an impending spike in "for Covid" cases is on its way:

https://twitter.com/john_actuary/status/1475172843709206534

Spoiler: we don't know which it is yet, but it's an interesting breakdown of why either could result in the dip we're seeing now, and how we might expect it to shift in either case.

It hadn't previously clicked for me that a rise in "for Covid" cases is going to be time-lagged behind the "with Covid" cases, because it typically takes some time for people to get ill enough from Covid to need hospitalization, while the "with" cases just need to turn positive and then get hit by a bus.

[Paul B]

Testing capacity isn't looking great:
https://twitter.com/JenWilliamsMEN/status/1476145365858586628?t=NLdf53Yjj4AZ5X7CZBh2sQ&s=19

[abarro81]

Not sure if there's a "post covid" thread I should put this in instead..

Climbed yesterday (having got out of iso on Christmas day, felt pretty much better, done a hangs session and some bouldering with no issue) doing some bouldering and then some aero cap where I totally tanked..  and woke up last night with a fever, sore throat, knackered etc... Looks like this is something that can happen post recovery. Anyone had similar? If so was it a one off or recurring thing? Any useful tricks to avoid it ("do less" being the obvious one)?

[Fiend]

I think it would be well worth starting a "Climbers recovering from covid" thread, to cover the immediate states afterwards as well as long dong covid potential. Give that quite a few people have had it and obviously want to get back to climbing effectively soon but sensibly.

[Offwidth]

Not sure if there's a "post covid" thread I should put this in instead..

Climbed yesterday (having got out of iso on Christmas day, felt pretty much better, done a hangs session and some bouldering with no issue) doing some bouldering and then some aero cap where I totally tanked..  and woke up last night with a fever, sore throat, knackered etc... Looks like this is something that can happen post recovery. Anyone had similar? If so was it a one off or recurring thing? Any useful tricks to avoid it ("do less" being the obvious one)?

My triathlete pals who have had really bad long covid said something similar: in good patches when some mild exercise seemed possible they were OK during but then knackered for days afterwards. They still have pretty limiting problems 21 months after catching it. My dad had bad GBS which is another rare but nastier form of long covid...I can assure you that is horrible. The NHS report makes it sound not so scary until you get to the last line... No mention that significant numbers who don't die end up paralysed and need months of extensive physio... as nerve use returns it comes with endless pain.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/guillain-barre-syndrome/
https://gaincharity.org.uk/faq/gbs-and-acute-associated-inflammatory-neuropathies/

[andy popp]

My wife was diagnosed with Guillain Barre in January 2020 and is still suffering significantly. However, I think it's misleading to describe GBS as a form of "long Covid," even if it's true that some people have developed GBS as a result of contracting Covid. GBS clearly exists independently of Covid (unless my wife somehow contracted Covid in the US in the fall of 2019, before it had been detected in China). GBS is an auto-immune disease triggered, in ways that are not fully understood, by a viral infection, very commonly gastroenteritis (my wife had a stomach bug in November 2019). In some people it is being triggered by Covid. Other auto-immune diseases, such as Type 1 diabetes, are similarly often triggered by viral infections. Our daughter developed Type 1 diabetes in May 2018, a few weeks after a chest infection.

My first wife died of the side effects of treatment for another auto-immune disease. I really fucking hate auto-immune diseases.

[Fiend]

With all due respect to Andy and wishing good health to his family, sorry to bring semi-frivolity into this...

But this one is just for you jab_happy 
https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,25088.msg651971.html#msg651971

[Offwidth]

My wife was diagnosed with Guillain Barre in January 2020 and is still suffering significantly. However, I think it's misleading to describe GBS as a form of "long Covid," even if it's true that some people have developed GBS as a result of contracting Covid. GBS clearly exists independently of Covid (unless my wife somehow contracted Covid in the US in the fall of 2019, before it had been detected in China). GBS is an auto-immune disease triggered, in ways that are not fully understood, by a viral infection, very commonly gastroenteritis (my wife had a stomach bug in November 2019). In some people it is being triggered by Covid. Other auto-immune diseases, such as Type 1 diabetes, are similarly often triggered by viral infections. Our daughter developed Type 1 diabetes in May 2018, a few weeks after a chest infection.

My first wife died of the side effects of treatment for another auto-immune disease. I really fucking hate auto-immune diseases.

If it's a direct result of a covid infection what else is it? Long covid broadly falls into two broad families... those suffering from organ damage (especially lungs) from the initial infection and those suffering from long term disregulation of their immune response (of which GB is an extreme example).

My dad nearly died, spent most of a year unable to move unaided and still is in constant pain and struggling to walk 20 years on.

[Oldmanmatt]

My wife was diagnosed with Guillain Barre in January 2020 and is still suffering significantly. However, I think it's misleading to describe GBS as a form of "long Covid," even if it's true that some people have developed GBS as a result of contracting Covid. GBS clearly exists independently of Covid (unless my wife somehow contracted Covid in the US in the fall of 2019, before it had been detected in China). GBS is an auto-immune disease triggered, in ways that are not fully understood, by a viral infection, very commonly gastroenteritis (my wife had a stomach bug in November 2019). In some people it is being triggered by Covid. Other auto-immune diseases, such as Type 1 diabetes, are similarly often triggered by viral infections. Our daughter developed Type 1 diabetes in May 2018, a few weeks after a chest infection.

My first wife died of the side effects of treatment for another auto-immune disease. I really fucking hate auto-immune diseases.

If it's a direct result of a covid infection what else is it? Long covid broadly falls into two broad families... those suffering from organ damage (especially lungs) from the initial infection and those suffering from long term disregulation of their immune response (of which GB is an extreme example).

My dad nearly died, spent most of a year unable to move unaided and still is in constant pain and struggling to walk 20 years on.

My partner, Polly, was born by emergency Caesarian two months premature, when her mother collapsed, paralysed from the neck down; with GBS. Apparently pregnancy can provoke the onset of GBS, and the lingering issues that brings (I’m not aware of any subsequent event of similar magnitude, but many more minor incidents). Massive resentment by mother of daughter that culminated in a “Shirley Valentine” when Polly was 12 (quite literally, her Mum ran off to Rhodes). I’m not sure why this should be classified as one of only two categories of long covid? There are a multitude of post viral (or suspected as such) long term conditions, brought on by a multitude of unrelated viruses, are there not?

[mrjonathanr]

If it's a direct result of a covid infection what else is it?

Guillain Barre. In the same way that if pregnancy triggers Multiple Sclerosis, the resulting disease is MS, not an extended pregnancy.

[slab_happy]

With all due respect to Andy and wishing good health to his family, sorry to bring semi-frivolity into this...

But this one is just for you jab_happy 
https://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,25088.msg651971.html#msg651971

Awww, I'm honoured!

ORCS FOR IMMUNOLOGY!!!

[Fultonius]

Not sure if there's a "post covid" thread I should put this in instead..

Climbed yesterday (having got out of iso on Christmas day, felt pretty much better, done a hangs session and some bouldering with no issue) doing some bouldering and then some aero cap where I totally tanked..  and woke up last night with a fever, sore throat, knackered etc... Looks like this is something that can happen post recovery. Anyone had similar? If so was it a one off or recurring thing? Any useful tricks to avoid it ("do less" being the obvious one)?

My triathlete pals who have had really bad long covid said something similar: in good patches when some mild exercise seemed possible they were OK during but then knackered for days afterwards. They still have pretty limiting problems 21 months after catching it. My dad had bad GBS which is another rare but nastier form of long covid...I can assure you that is horrible. The NHS report makes it sound not so scary until you get to the last line... No mention that significant numbers who don't die end up paralysed and need months of extensive physio... as nerve use returns it comes with endless pain.

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/guillain-barre-syndrome/
https://gaincharity.org.uk/faq/gbs-and-acute-associated-inflammatory-neuropathies/

I had (admittedly mild) sciatic pain (first time in my life) on around day 5-7 of having covid. Around the same time my taste went. Weird horrible illness!

My dad suffered 27 years from rheumatoid arthritis, finally losing the batter to lung complications due to treatment related side effects. Tbh I'm glad he didn't have to suffer the pandemic, much as I'd love him to still be around.

[andy popp]

Tbh I'm glad he didn't have to suffer the pandemic, much as I'd love him to still be around.

I've often felt the same about my dad, who died in 2018, aged 86 and in poor health. I think he would have found the whole thing very upsetting and confusing. I know it may sound strange, but I'm glad he was spared it.

[andy popp]

Just to add, that in saying this I in no way intend to diminish the suffering of those who lost parents and other loved ones to Covid.

[seankenny]

Just to add, that in saying this I in no way intend to diminish the suffering of those who lost parents and other loved ones to Covid.

Since that’s me, I should say that I don’t find these sentiments upsetting in the slightest. But I do appreciate the thought.

[slab_happy]

Back on the topic of masks:

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/dec/30/masks-best-covid-protection-ffp2-ffp3

[Bradders]

Tbh I'm glad he didn't have to suffer the pandemic, much as I'd love him to still be around.

I've often felt the same about my dad, who died in 2018, aged 86 and in poor health. I think he would have found the whole thing very upsetting and confusing. I know it may sound strange, but I'm glad he was spared it.

My grandma had a stroke on 14th March 2020, and died on 20th March, with the first lock down starting on 23rd March. I've often thought the exact same thing, I'd hate for her to have spent so long in such isolation.

[tommytwotone]

Assuming the "wait 4 weeks after you've had COVID" guidance is still in place, earliest I'd be eligible is (I think) next Weds. In two minds about rushing to get it done as a) I'd rather not scupper Xmas with potential side effects, b) I'm guessing I'm full to the hat-band with antibodies anyway, and c) I have a booking for 6th Jan anyway.

Yeah, I don't know if anyone's got info or advice on optimal timing of boosters in people who are already "super-immune".

Effectively, getting Covid already functioned as a kind of "third dose" for you, and we know super-immunity holds up pretty strongly against Omicron:

https://twitter.com/JanineKimpel/status/1468700628922904591

Based on the Balazs Lab stuff, looks like you could potentially gain even more immunity by getting a booster at some point, but you're going to be in a decent position right now.

What's more Super-Immune than Super-Immune? Ultra-Immune?

Having had the AZ for jabs 1 and 2 I reckon if they give me a different one for the Booster I could end up being able to fly, see into the future or something as well as being COVID-resistant.

Well I went ahead and got boosted, after Xmas (27th Dec) though - Moderna / SpikeVax on top of 2 x AZ and actual COVID at end of Nov.


Have to say side effects have been really quite profound. Had a day of just feeling crap - tired, queasy, basically just stayed in bed all day. That passed after about 24/48hrs, but then every night I've had terrible fever-y/sweaty nights of sleep.


Reading online this seems "normal", just didn't think it'd last this long. Would quite like it to pass, if only for the sake of my poor washing machine, which is earning its money this week!

[slab_happy]

Congrats on booster! Sorry you've been so hammered by side-effects, but your immune system must be going WILD right now.