[Nigel]

FYI for Sheffielders looking for a grey day activity then Darnall Medical Centre is doing walk in vaccine clinics for either 1st or 2nd dose Pfizer, no booking necessary. No queue this morning, anecdotally from docs Sheffield seems to have an excess of vaccine at the moment so plenty to go round.

Darnall open for walk in every day except Monday:



Also NHS Sheff CCG Twitter https://twitter.com/NHSSheffieldCCG has updates on pop-up last min walk-ins e.g. excess vaccines at GP surgeries etc, worth keeping an eye on....

[mrjonathanr]

I know this is not quite the right thread but I don’t know which is, without starting one which will be quickly forgotten and lost. However, a lot of people have found themselves in straitened circumstances due to the pandemic so it goes here.

https://sharewearclothingscheme.org/donations/

Clothes bank - like a food bank, but for clothes. Brilliant idea- just not available on my side of the Pennines unfortunately. Like a lot of parents we have stuff grown out of long before it’s looking tired.

[slab_happy]

In case anyone needs further incentive: looks like if you're vaccinated but unlucky enough to get a breakthrough infection, being vaccinated still knocks a third off your chances of ending up with long Covid:

https://inews.co.uk/news/politics/long-covid-vaccine-cuts-chance-third-major-new-study-1058474

Analysis from KCL and the Zoe lot.

[TobyD]

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/g7-cornwall-its-little-wonder-the-locals-are-talking-of-a-covid-cover-up-1062528

Just spotted this in the I. Infections in Cornwall in the G7 destination up 4000%...

[galpinos]

Daughters class bubble has gone down. Bugger. Feels like it's all starting again!

[tomtom]

Daughters class bubble has gone down. Bugger. Feels like it's all starting again!

Thats crap Nick. Yes - I get that feeling too...

In an update - my Wifes double pfizer jabbed positive colleague has improved (no more flu symptoms) but has no taste or smell (apparently makes wine somewhat disappointing - but at least she's well enough to partake..). Her 18 YO son is really suffering though.

[Bonjoy]

Daughters class bubble has gone down. Bugger. Feels like it's all starting again!

My son also stuck at home for ten days as of last Friday for the same reason.

[andy popp]

Daughters class bubble has gone down. Bugger. Feels like it's all starting again!

My son also stuck at home for ten days as of last Friday for the same reason.

My adult son also at home for ten days after his housemate tested positive. Son is more than two weeks out from second jab and is feeling fine so far. His housemate had his first about a week before testing positive. I feel for him: he works in hospitality and has spent months and months furloughed. He was really enjoying being back in work. Bugger, as Nick said.

[kelvin]

The local has closed for ten days, one member of staff has covid. Lots of people affected obviously.

[Oldmanmatt]

Looking at the relatively flat hospital admission rates, in light of the now country wide rapid rise in infections; is it safe to safe the link between infection and hospitalisation is definitively, massively cut?

The last time we passed 16k infections per day, was October 11, 2020 and that corresponded with some 823 hospital admissions for the same day.

We’ve been at over 16k new cases per day for at least two days running  but admissions remain below 250 daily.

Whilst the total tests carried out are much higher now, the PCR daily count in October was similar to todays.
(I am assuming that the rest of the testing logged is Lateral flow (?)).

[Sidehaas]

By my reading hospital admissions are running at about 50% of those when cases were at a similar level last year (beginning of October.) This was also the case a week ago. I suspect your figures might be skewed a bit because we've seen a big spike in cases today and yesterday. Hospital figures lag cases by a couple of weeks.
Also worth looking at ITUs. ITU occupancy now as a proportion of hospital occupancy is actually slightly higher than it was in the last wave, probably because of the reduced number of old people in hospital who can't be put on ITU (ie the age demographic of hospitalisations is shifted downwards). There are very few deaths happening still.
So it appears there are still lots of people in their late or even early middle age with zero or one dose who are going to hospital with illness that is bad enough to put them on a ventilator, but not to kill them. However the data for older ages would suggest two doses are still very effective. The vaccine effects study from PHE seems to back this up, suggesting one dose is 75% effective against hospitalisation and two doses over 90% I think.
I would say the link is definitely weakened but definitely not broken. Given the way case rates have played out in places that got hit first by Delta (Bolton, Blackburn, Bedford) though, I'm fairly optimistic this coming wave won't be as bad as the previous one (even post restrictions removal, but this is obviously difficult to say.)  Some of the older people still waiting for their second dose might just want to keep their heads down for a while when the restrictions are removed completely if not before.

[teestub]

Seems like the next couple of weeks are going to be key in how it plays out if the cases keep going up the way they re (up what 50% in a week?).

[TobyD]

Seems like the next couple of weeks are going to be key in how it plays out if the cases keep going up the way they re (up what 50% in a week?).

Or 5000% if you're in Cornwall: https://inews.co.uk/news/leading-covid-scientist-claims-g7-helped-create-surge-cornwall-cases-1069717

[slab_happy]

Very nice:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/find-a-walk-in-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-site/

"If you live in England and are aged 18 or over, you can get a COVID-19 vaccine from a walk-in COVID-19 vaccination site without an appointment.

You do not need to be registered with a GP or bring any ID. It might help to bring your NHS number, if you know it.

If you've already had your 1st dose, you need to wait 8 weeks before having your 2nd dose."

[slab_happy]

Cov-Boost desperately needs people who are at least 70 days after their second jab (so that's going to skew towards older people and healthcare workers):

https://www.independent.co.uk/news/science/covid-vaccine-booster-winter-variant-b1871463.html

https://www.covboost.org.uk

There's one control group who get an active placebo, but most people involved are going to get a third dose of an effective vaccine, so on an entirely self-interested basis, this is a really sweet deal. Also science and all that.

And I can report from my own experience that you get really well looked-after as a trial volunteer and everyone is really nice to you.

[Fultonius]

Very nice:

https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/coronavirus-covid-19/coronavirus-vaccination/find-a-walk-in-coronavirus-covid-19-vaccination-site/

"If you live in England and are aged 18 or over, you can get a COVID-19 vaccine from a walk-in COVID-19 vaccination site without an appointment.

You do not need to be registered with a GP or bring any ID. It might help to bring your NHS number, if you know it.

If you've already had your 1st dose, you need to wait 8 weeks before having your 2nd dose."

We're visiting friends and family next week in England. Seeing as they don't ask for address or I'd, if we went for a second dose somewhere and gave NHS number, I wonder if it will be registered?

No walk ins yet in Scotland for Pfizer.

[Bonjoy]

Daughters class bubble has gone down. Bugger. Feels like it's all starting again!

My son also stuck at home for ten days as of last Friday for the same reason.

Spike's back at school tomorrow, but I do wonder how long it'll be before he's back home again.
Essentially we are looking at the herd immunity strategy on a subset of the population (school age children)by default. Coupled with the increased transmissibility of Delta (haven't heard any reports this is different for different ages), and said subset mingling on a daily basis with no masks of SD to speak of, you have to wonder how planners think this is going to go. Maybe the summer hols will intervene in time. A lot about it makes me uncomfortable, not least the idea of a never ending series of ten day house arrest orders until the whole class has had it. Seems unsustainable to me. What is being achieved, and at what cost.

[SA Chris]

I think we are lucky it's summer holidays in Scotland, several school had classes and even whole years sent home for the last week.

My youngest niece in St Albans is currently self-isolating after one + test in her class, even though she tested -   

[spidermonkey09]

I've been thinking about this a bit over the last week. I don't have any kids/ know any school age kids so it all feels a bit distant to me.

Seems to me we have a choice of
a) continue as we are, which as Bonjoy alludes to will inevitable result in loads of cases among kids
b) vaccinate all kids to try and reduce cases. Interested in what parents on here think about that as the ethics of it are quite interesting; eg vaccinating those not at risk to try and prevent them spreading it to those who are. Side effects are worth the risk in adults, but its a trickier calculation for kids, especially younger ones. What do those with kids think?
c) continue with a, but in the new school year change the rules around bubbles to stop the relentless cycle of isolating.

I think I'd be in favour of c; totally agree the status quo of massive groups of kids having their education interrupted every other week is no good. Think b is an ethical minefield and might have limited effectiveness due to parents being worried. All guesswork though as I haven't read a huge amount on it.

[SA Chris]

c) personally, I'm not happy about kids getting vaccinated at this stage of their development (9 & 11 1/2).

[AJM]

I've been thinking about this a bit over the last week. I don't have any kids/ know any school age kids so it all feels a bit distant to me.

Seems to me we have a choice of
a) continue as we are, which as Bonjoy alludes to will inevitable result in loads of cases among kids
b) vaccinate all kids to try and reduce cases. Interested in what parents on here think about that as the ethics of it are quite interesting; eg vaccinating those not at risk to try and prevent them spreading it to those who are. Side effects are worth the risk in adults, but its a trickier calculation for kids, especially younger ones. What do those with kids think?
c) continue with a, but in the new school year change the rules around bubbles to stop the relentless cycle of isolating.

I think I'd be in favour of c; totally agree the status quo of massive groups of kids having their education interrupted every other week is no good. Think b is an ethical minefield and might have limited effectiveness due to parents being worried. All guesswork though as I haven't read a huge amount on it.

If we’re removing remaining restrictions pretty soon, it feels quite a lot like part of the discussion in point b is whether you’d prefer your child to have its antibody delivered “in the wild” or via a needle?

More widely, I am interested to see what happens to the self isolation rules. Certainly from my perspective (2 nursery age children, otherwise comfortably able to work from home, not the biggest socialite due to said children and their demanding nature, 1 jab so far) the most visible impact Covid has on my life is probably  the potential impact combining self isolating with 2 children and trying to work would have. I’m probably not the only one who’s going to put off some elements of a return to 2019-normality until the threat of that is removed.

And it’s not hard to see engagement with test and trace dropping away as the wider message shifts to saying that cases aren’t important enough to retain any other restrictions against their growth. I guess effectively at the moment we think we’ve got enough jabs in arms to “let it rip” on everyone else - at which point what purpose is self isolation serving?

[spidermonkey09]

If we’re removing remaining restrictions pretty soon, it feels quite a lot like part of the discussion in point b is whether you’d prefer your child to have its antibody delivered “in the wild” or via a needle?

More widely, I am interested to see what happens to the self isolation rules. Certainly from my perspective (2 nursery age children, otherwise comfortably able to work from home, not the biggest socialite due to said children and their demanding nature, 1 jab so far) the most visible impact Covid has on my life is probably  the potential impact combining self isolating with 2 children and trying to work would have. I’m probably not the only one who’s going to put off some elements of a return to 2019-normality until the threat of that is removed.

And it’s not hard to see engagement with test and trace dropping away as the wider message shifts to saying that cases aren’t important enough to retain any other restrictions against their growth. I guess effectively at the moment we think we’ve got enough jabs in arms to “let it rip” on everyone else - at which point what purpose is self isolation serving?

Yeah, I agree with all of that. For clarity, I am not Andrew Wakefield in disguise re vaccinating kids! I think there is a very strong case for vaccinating teenagers quite soon in particular.

Can also see how the engagement with TTI might drop once everyone has had their two jabs. Should probably switch to a daily test which, if negative, means you can go around as normal. Can't see it being as widely adhered to if people are asymptomatic, passing negative tests, double jabbed... Yet also have to spend 10 days inside.

[AJM]

Yeah, I agree with all of that. For clarity, I am not Andrew Wakefield in disguise re vaccinating kids! I think there is a very strong case for vaccinating teenagers quite soon in particular.

Can also see how the engagement with TTI might drop once everyone has had their two jabs. Should probably switch to a daily test which, if negative, means you can go around as normal. Can't see it being as widely adhered to if people are asymptomatic, passing negative tests, double jabbed... Yet also have to spend 10 days inside.

It’s strange, because if I frame the question as “do I want them to be vaccinated” then the answer is probably not, since it offers them little benefit, but if I reframe it as “would I prefer they get a potentially unknown viral load infection from nursery, versus a measured and more controlled equivalent” then it’s far less clear cut. I guess it’s the same as the AZ vaccine risk trade off, in that the answer may depend on whether you view them getting it as an inevitability or not.

With TTI, the only way I can see it making sense in a few months is if actually we can’t really “remove all restrictions” but actually do need this one in order to be able to remove the remainder and still control hospitalisations. But since the isolation but is only dubiously adhered to at the best of times, I hadn’t really viewed it as a crucial control in that sense.

[Bonjoy]

I've been thinking about this a bit over the last week. I don't have any kids/ know any school age kids so it all feels a bit distant to me.

Seems to me we have a choice of
a) continue as we are, which as Bonjoy alludes to will inevitable result in loads of cases among kids
b) vaccinate all kids to try and reduce cases. Interested in what parents on here think about that as the ethics of it are quite interesting; eg vaccinating those not at risk to try and prevent them spreading it to those who are. Side effects are worth the risk in adults, but its a trickier calculation for kids, especially younger ones. What do those with kids think?
c) continue with a, but in the new school year change the rules around bubbles to stop the relentless cycle of isolating.

I think I'd be in favour of c; totally agree the status quo of massive groups of kids having their education interrupted every other week is no good. Think b is an ethical minefield and might have limited effectiveness due to parents being worried. All guesswork though as I haven't read a huge amount on it.

I agree that looks like the options.
I'm not sure what I think about vaccinating children yet. It would be good to know what the relative risks are for younger age groups of CV versus vaccine.
For now, I think some change of rules is needed if kids are to remain unvaccinated. At the very least they should be able to cut isolation short with a PCR test w/wo follow up LFTs.
It's not just schooling that gets interrupted by isolating. Spike has missed out on loads of out of school stuff, both organised and informal, having been through three ten/fouteen day isolations so far. It's an uphill struggle trying to moderate screen use these day too, and repeated stints of ten days at home REALLY doesn't help.

[battery]

I've been thinking about this a bit over the last week. I don't have any kids/ know any school age kids so it all feels a bit distant to me.

Seems to me we have a choice of
a) continue as we are, which as Bonjoy alludes to will inevitable result in loads of cases among kids
b) vaccinate all kids to try and reduce cases. Interested in what parents on here think about that as the ethics of it are quite interesting; eg vaccinating those not at risk to try and prevent them spreading it to those who are. Side effects are worth the risk in adults, but its a trickier calculation for kids, especially younger ones. What do those with kids think?
c) continue with a, but in the new school year change the rules around bubbles to stop the relentless cycle of isolating.

I think I'd be in favour of c; totally agree the status quo of massive groups of kids having their education interrupted every other week is no good. Think b is an ethical minefield and might have limited effectiveness due to parents being worried. All guesswork though as I haven't read a huge amount on it.

Point b is actually what happens with the flu vaccine, children are encouraged to get it and it is delivered in schools (nasal spray, not needle) not to protect them against the flu but because they are very efficient spreaders of the flu.

I'd want to see some solid science behind the decision to vaccinate children but in principle I'm all for vaccines.