[Loos3-tools]

I’ll repeat it just to be clear. I believe that the idea that there has been no flu detected in the U.K. is a lie manifested from pandemic health policy and that the mandating by law of lockdowns, face coverings and medical procedures is a human rights abuse.

[Oldmanmatt]

I also believe that mandating by law lockdowns, face coverings and any other health procedure is a human rights abuse.

Yeah! And seatbelts! And traffic laws! And Child protection laws that stop me punishing my children the way I see fit! Oh, and laws regulating the practice of medicine! Nobody should be forced to only have approved and tested medications and procedures.
Come on! It’s not as if any of this stuff actually worked! It’s coincidental that seatbelt introduction coincided with a reduction of road deaths! It’s coincidental that every mandated lockdown and mask wearing occurred just before a rapid drop in infections!
Dan’s comfort is all that matters!
Thank the Flying Spaghetti Monster, that Dan is here to explain why society would function so much better without laws and mandates and regulations and order. Of course, everybody would be sensible and do the right thing, if only the “GoveRnmUnT” would leave them alone!

[teestub]

I’ll repeat it just to be clear. I believe that the idea that there has been no flu detected in the U.K. is a lie manifested from pandemic health policy

Can you help me with your use of the word manifested here, are you saying that it is necessity to lie about these 680,000 tests to support the lockdown and mask policies? Would you say this is the case worldwide?

[Loos3-tools]

Straw men, moral equivalence, slippery slope reasoning, ad hominem are all regularly used to rebuff arguments here

'preach it round or preach it flat' whatever fits

[slab_happy]

I’ll repeat it just to be clear. I believe that the idea that there has been no flu detected in the U.K. is a lie manifested from pandemic health

Right. So you believe there's a vast co-ordinated international inter-governmental conspiracy, then.

All the nations of the world, finally brought together in harmony by one thing: lying about flu.

and that the mandating by law of lockdowns, face coverings and medical procedures is a human rights abuse.

That's a moral and political question. Which I would also disagree with you about, but I don't see what it's got to do with the number of flu cases.

Would you feel it wasn't a human rights abuse if there were more flu cases, or less flu cases, or something?

Out of interest, do you think the number of Covid cases is also fictional, or is it just flu we're arguing about here?

[Oldmanmatt]

I’ll repeat it just to be clear. I believe that the idea that there has been no flu detected in the U.K. is a lie manifested from pandemic health policy and that the mandating by law of lockdowns, face coverings and medical procedures is a human rights abuse.

This is the dangerous lie, Dan. Go, do your own thing. Believe whatever rot you wish. Stop pushing your twisted beliefs on others. You have no evidence to point to, no reasoned argument to back up your position, only repeated assertions of your one sentence whine.
Slabs dropped a few contrary, evidenced, arguments; you ignored them in favour of simply repeating your first statement, only slightly altering the wording. You are worse than my kids (when they were younger), sticking fingers in their ears and yelling “LA LA LA LA LA” when they didn’t want to hear, what they didn’t want hear.

I think it’s obvious (think) you crave attention. I find it hard to believe you are this stubborn and ill informed. I don’t mind giving you that attention, but I don’t see any point in pandering to you. Wrong is wrong. Push back is needed.

[chris j]

I’ll repeat it just to be clear. I believe that the idea that there has been no flu detected in the U.K. is a lie manifested from pandemic health policy.

It must be an international conspiracy with southern hemisphere flu reported to be down by about 99.5% last summer...

https://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/volumes/69/wr/mm6937a6.htm

Edit: I should read further up the thread before posting...

[Oldmanmatt]

Straw men, moral equivalence, slippery slope reasoning, ad hominem are all regularly used to rebuff arguments here

'preach it round or preach it flat' whatever fits

Only from you, Dan.
Everybody else uses reasoned, evidenced, arguments and you make unsubstantiated assertions based solely on what you “feel” is right.

[Loos3-tools]

Yes well, visceral reasoning is a last port of call not to be ignored

[abarro81]

I’ll repeat it just to be clear. I believe that the idea that there has been no flu detected in the U.K. is a lie manifested from pandemic health policy and that the mandating by law of lockdowns, face coverings and medical procedures is a human rights abuse.

1. Is it March 2020 again?
2. Do you also think that speed limits, seat belt rules, traffic rules, rules around reckless endangerment, H&S rules etc are human rights abuses? What's your cut-off/distinction?
3. How do you think the conspiracy works (like slab said)? My aunt worked in medical stats... I need to get her out of retirement if there's gold to be had in that world at the moment! You realise that not detecting flu and it not existing aren't quite the same as well right.
4. FREEEEEEDOMMMM!!!!

Dan - you dismiss arguments broadly but offer ZERO reasoned comeback or thoughts on them. Please do so, or I'll just work on the assumption that you're either trolling or so much less intellectually capable than you think you are that you make me look modest.

If you're trolling, worth thinking about where people's mental states are at right now before thinking it'll be funny to wind them up and fuck up their head for the rest of the day. If not, then fucking engage with the points for once instead of writing some pseudo-intellectual bollocks

[SA Chris]

More of Dan, walking around, banging a saucepan, shouting.

Classic obfuscation. Sadly not big, not clever.

[Loos3-tools]

I'm not trolling, I was stating a belief which I admit to a large degree is unsubstantiated but gathered from paying attention to a wide range of sources. It is hard to engage with points when they are mixed up with personal attacks. I understand what you're saying about mental states and if my belief that mandates are a human rights abuse (this is genuine) disturbs anyone that wasn't my intention.

[Loos3-tools]

mistake post

[Oldmanmatt]

Yes well, visceral reasoning is a last port of call not to be ignored

Remove the word ‘reasoning” and that’s actually a good description of your stance. Glad you are finally becoming self aware. A little more reading and you might just pull through.
You could, possibly, try this:
Instead of “just asking questions” here, about the first paranoid thought that pops into your head during your morning shower; take that thought and spend some time reading up on the subject. It seems to me, you have yet to make any assertions or statements, in your time on the forum, that were not instantly and easily refuted by the simplest search.
Try harder.

[abarro81]

For me, your belief doesn't piss me off, it's the fact that you want to spray about what you think on here but refuse to actually engage in discussion about it. This has happened plenty of times befoee. It's really boring, and quite frustrating

Add in the odd demonstrably false post (e.g. old Scandinavian stats under another pseudonym, or the US thread right now) and it all looks like trolling. The solution is to actually engage in discussion about the things you post, e.g. to respond to 2 and 3 in my post, or teestub's post etc...

[shark]

Last chance Dan.

You’d better demonstrate you are going to properly engage with others posts or I’ll delete you account for trolling again.

[Loos3-tools]

The NHS is a corrupt organisation as is NHS England, it's corrupt due to the ongoing problems of health care being conflated with politics, money and power. Money and power is distributed to the NHS by the government via performance based measures, outcomes which are incentivised. This naturally leads to both conscious and unconscious motivating factors to manage and manipulate statistics for the benefit of the organisation which may or may not lead to improvements in health care but usually benefits the few as opposed to the many. I don't believe this is an organised global conspiracy but I do believe this has been going on throughout the pandemic which has been supported by the government campaign which essentially is about money and power or simply power. A good past example would be the pandemrix scandal reported by channel 4. Therefore my visceral reasoning suggests to me that top down decisions are being made about healthcare not on the basis of care for well being but on the basis of money and power. Some of the various ways this has played out during the pandemic include the management of reporting of death and the various covid testing queries. The fear and unhappiness generated by this government led campaign will be around for a long time. 

[Loos3-tools]

Last chance Dan.

You’d better demonstrate you are going to properly engage with others posts or I’ll delete you account for trolling again.

Go for it Simon

[Oldmanmatt]

I'm not trolling, I was stating a belief which I admit to a large degree is unsubstantiated but gathered from paying attention to a wide range of sources. It is hard to engage with points when they are mixed up with personal attacks. I understand what you're saying about mental states and if my belief that mandates are a human rights abuse (this is genuine) disturbs anyone that wasn't my intention.

Dan, your “ belief” is demonstrably false.
There are concrete examples of documented evidence to support the exact opposite of your “belief”.
To counter that, you have nothing but ‘feelings” and (said) “belief”.
People are entitled to their “beliefs” but that doesn’t make them real. You haven’t given any credence to your assertions, to give anybody the impression they amount to anything other than “wishful thinking” on your part.
I admit, I don’t understand why you feel the need to believe that all aspects of society are “out to get you” and you haven’t delineated exactly what the objective of all this “mind control” is, or how, exactly, it works, but this is not the same as a personal attack.
This isn’t ad hominem. It is your argument which is being attacked. I suspect the reason you feel personally attacked, is that you hold these “beliefs” dear. A challenge to the “belief” is a challenge to your core identity.

Honestly, though, there’s nothing like the harsh realities of a Pandemic, to rip into an individual’s cherished belief in their own Indepenence and self determination. It’s hard, realising how constrained you are, by the society you live in, your dependence on it and other people.
There are alternatives. People can and do reject society. There are remote woodlands etc, where you can retreat, even now.
My family buggered off to a remote part of France (yes, you don’t have to go far), to live high on a mountain side and be “self sufficient”. My parents needed the break. I was fortunate enough to be able to enjoy it on a part time basis. Had it’s plus points. Bloody hard though.
Anyway, I digress.
Look at it like this:
Without enforced public health measures, historically over a couple of centuries now (and often imposed over vociferous protests from populations who “believed” they knew better), many people reading this forum, simply wouldn’t exist. Much of the society and technology you use everyday, the food you eat, the house you live in, the water you drink (unthinking, regulated, clean and safe by mandate), simply wouldn’t exist.

[spidermonkey09]

Last chance Dan.

You’d better demonstrate you are going to properly engage with others posts or I’ll delete you account for trolling again.

There are enough corners of the internet for wankers in their basements to discuss the 'scamdemic.' If Dan wants to he should piss off there. This offensive bullshit doesn't need to infect UKB as well.

[Nails]

The term "visceral reasoning" is nonsense in itself. Visceral means intuitive or emotive, so by definition it has nothing to do with reasoning. Just thought I'd chuck that in, as the repeated use of the term "visceral reasoning" is really grating on me.

[Oldmanmatt]

The NHS is a corrupt organisation as is NHS England, it's corrupt due to the ongoing problems of health care being conflated with politics, money and power. Money and power is distributed to the NHS by the government via performance based measures, outcomes which are incentivised. This naturally leads to both conscious and unconscious motivating factors to manage and manipulate statistics for the benefit of the organisation which may or may not lead to improvements in health care but usually benefits the few as opposed to the many. I don't believe this is an organised global conspiracy but I do believe this has been going on throughout the pandemic which has been supported by the government campaign which essentially is about money and power or simply power. A good past example would be the pandemrix scandal reported by channel 4. Therefore my visceral reasoning suggests to me that top down decisions are being made about healthcare not on the basis of care for well being but on the basis of money and power. Some of the various ways this has played out during the pandemic include the management of reporting of death and the various covid testing queries. The fear and unhappiness generated by this government led campaign will be around for a long time.

Eye roll...

Dan, have you ever heard the phrase “throwing the Baby out with the Bath water”?

Have you never received free medical treatment that either saved your life, or significantly improved your lot?

I do note, you have not died of Smallpox or Cholera, for example (unless there’s something you are not telling us? Do you type from beyond)?

You need to remove that word “reasoning” because it is nothing but a gut feeling. Belief can be a dangerous thing, if you never question it.

[Loos3-tools]

Ok ok, I'll go and find my natural home with the basement morons. fair enough - genuinely meant

[spidermonkey09]

You clearly understand how offensive and deluded these opinions are or you wouldn't be on your fourth account of the pandemic.

[Oldmanmatt]

Ok ok, I'll go and find my natural home with the basement morons. fair enough - genuinely meant

Look, you woke up this morning, with a Bee in your proverbial Bonnet, bubbling over with the need to recolour the world.
Why? What happened? You say it was “visceral” which (to me) implies an intense feeling? Yet, you don’t have anything new to point to.
Reality is often disappointing.
Discovering that you don’t actually play the lead role in the movie of life, is a bitter pill to swallow.
Several people, that I am aware of, who post here (and probably more who choose not to share), have had this demonstrated to them, traumatically and forcefully, myself included. Of course I may be wrong, but I’ve seen this type of behaviour before. In myself and in others I have been involved with, after such trauma.
Trauma, has a very broad definition, incidentally. Anything from “moving house” or “losing a job”, right through to “bereavement” and “life changing injury” etc.
Society, is not perfect. Governments (any of them, ever) are not perfect. Humans, often, tend to self interest and short term needs or wants. Ultimately, our society, today, is an improvement over that which existed before. That it could be better, is without question. Corruption, will probably never disappear. It is, however, better now than it has been. Really. Take a look at some historical examples. Stick to British history, to narrow it down, it’s endemic to society, in all it’s forms, and always was.
Edit:
I meant to ask, has something changed dramatically for you in recent times? I know little about your life. Children? Recent birth?
Job on the line, or lost, because of pandemic restrictions?
I’m not expecting you to answer, it’s not a demand. Just take some time to ask yourself why your “visceral” reaction to this thing is so intense and so contrarian.