[nai]

"The Guardian can reveal"?

Because they read last week's Private Eye.

An Eye in December also raised questions about the company, only founded in March by a guy banned from being a director in the UK in partnership with a failed cleaning solution company that was technically insolvent.

But what's a billion pound gamble these days.

[tomtom]

An insolvent cleaning company eh? 😁

[seankenny]

Also found out this morning that my mum's been invited for hers but hasn't taken it up. She's always tried to avoid taking unneccessary medication (pain relief, antibiotics etc) which is fair enough, but I didn't expect this. Her reasoning is a general suspicion of the Govt and by extension anything they've been involved with. Hoping I can persuade her otherwise.

My Parents in Law, both in their 70s are showing signs of dithering when asked when they are getting theirs. One is a smoker, with a history of respiratory issues. My Brother-in-law is asthmatic and he's made it clear to them he will avoid contact with them until either they get a vaccine or he does, so hopefully they will see sense.

I can intellectually understand why people are hesitant but, as someone who's lost a relative to covid, hearing about it makes me pretty upset. After all this time, all those TV news reports from inside hospitals, I simply do not understand (or do not want to understand) why people fail to grasp the full horror of this way of dying, as if whatever the vaccine could do to you is worse. It's like dad's death - and the deaths of all the others - have been for nothing.

It's pretty hideous, dying of covid, and not just for the ill person: once your relative is under sedation, you are left in a limbo where every day becomes a question of "will they live, or will they die?". There's no way you ever want a last conversation with someone through facetime, on a mobile phone held by a doctor dressed in full PPE. If - and I suspect it's a big if - they let you into the ward to see the body then you cannot even kiss the person goodbye, but must say your last farewells through a mask, visor and gloves. If I could let the vaccine hesitant into my thoughts and feelings for just a minute, and replay that experience for them, they would beg for the vaccine out of love for their children.

Obviously this is something I feel quite strongly about. So it was not pleasant to hear today that two of my cousins - cranks and fools the pair - have been strongly pressuring their mum not to have the vaccine. Thank goodness she held firm and her and her husband had the jab...

[moose]

This might be dragging the tone down from the heartfelt previous posts, but I reckon the cranks should consider that if they are defying a probable ideological hero - a Republican Governor / Mr Olympia / Conan the Barbarian / the Terminator - they might be wrong about vaccines:

https://twitter.com/Schwarzenegger/status/1351973032953188352

Btw, the "put the needle down" line is a reference to "Jingle All the Way"... I didn't get it either.

[seankenny]

Not dragging down at all... anything to get those fuckers to see sense!

[SA Chris]

sean, I know it's an emotive subject for you, but I completely and totally agree with you. The fact that there is even the remotest chance that their grandchildren would lost them because they are believing some trumped up bullshit fed to them by the Daily Mail really has us raging against them, especially my brother in law who is desperate to get his, and get on with a normal life.

[slab_happy]

Her reasoning is a general suspicion of the Govt and by extension anything they've been involved with.

Honestly, fair enough -- maybe worth pointing out that the Govt hasn't had anything to do with the vaccine development process except for throwing money at it. And the vaccines have gone through all of the standard approval processes, it's just that the whole process has been accelerated by running trials overlapping each other and reviewing data on a rolling basis.

https://covid.joinzoe.com/post/how-covid-vaccine-so-fast
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2020/dec/08/how-has-a-covid-vaccine-been-developed-so-quickly

I am proud to say I know folks who are volunteers in the Oxford/Astra Zeneca and Novavax trials.

There was legit concern in the US that there would be pressure from Trump on the FDA to jump the gun on vaccine approval to get one announced before the election, whether that was appropriate or not, but in the end that didn't happen.

She's always tried to avoid taking unneccessary medication (pain relief, antibiotics etc) which is fair enough, but I didn't expect this.

Maybe it could be worth pointing out that vaccines aren't "drugs"? They literally just teach your own immune system to recognize and fight off the virus, and don't themselves remain in your body.

[IanP]

sean, I know it's an emotive subject for you, but I completely and totally agree with you. The fact that there is even the remotest chance that their grandchildren would lost them because they are believing some trumped up bullshit fed to them by the Daily Mail really has us raging against them, especially my brother in law who is desperate to get his, and get on with a normal life.

Had some discussions with my Mum about the vaccine (which she's now had  ), one of the points I made is that getting the vaccine isn't just about protecting herself it's about allowing everyone to return to a more normal life and letting her grandchildren have the some of the choices and opportunities we all want for them.

[ali k]

Her reasoning is a general suspicion of the Govt and by extension anything they've been involved with.

Honestly, fair enough -- maybe worth pointing out that the Govt hasn't had anything to do with the vaccine development process except for throwing money at it.

I think that was the issue - the govt have been so desperate to manipulate data relating to every aspect of their response (PPE supply figures, testing numbers etc) that my mum has extended that to the vaccine and was suspicious of them putting pressure on manufacturers to manipulate safety or efficacy data. A lesson in why building trust in govt is important I guess, especially at times like this.

She's always tried to avoid taking unneccessary medication (pain relief, antibiotics etc) which is fair enough, but I didn't expect this.

Maybe it could be worth pointing out that vaccines aren't "drugs"?

She has the flu jab every year and was a nurse earlier in her career so it's not vaccines per se she had a problem with. Just this one, given the circumstances.

But it sounds like me booking mine has convinced her and she's going on Monday

[slab_happy]

Win!

My mum's off to get her first shot today.

[tomtom]

I’m not sure what to think about the whole EU/UK vaccine supply row/bunfight.

It’s not surprised me to see a little bit of smug - we got there first - nationalism from the UK (which isn’t pretty). But I’m surprised how the EU seem to have nearly thrown all their toys out of the pram in response....

What a mess.

[seankenny]

sean, I know it's an emotive subject for you, but I completely and totally agree with you. The fact that there is even the remotest chance that their grandchildren would lost them because they are believing some trumped up bullshit fed to them by the Daily Mail really has us raging against them, especially my brother in law who is desperate to get his, and get on with a normal life.

Good luck with persuading them - and keeping your cool too! (Not easy...)

I'm very lucky, my brother (who had cancer last year) is getting his today, mum is getting hers tomorrow, no messing.

[SA Chris]

Trust me, cool is not always kept. I know they voted Leave and Tory too.

That's good news for you though. My brother ended chemo over 18 months ago now, so is no longer regarded as "at risk".

My mum in Devon is over 80, so had her's already. Rest of oldywonks are in 70s, so hopefully not far behind.

[ali k]

I’m not sure what to think about the whole EU/UK vaccine supply row/bunfight.

It’s not surprised me to see a little bit of smug - we got there first - nationalism from the UK (which isn’t pretty).

It did make me laugh when Johnson claimed the other day not to want to see any vaccine nationalism...having signed a contract with AZ to supply the first 100million doses exclusively to the UK and refusing to allow any doses to be diverted from the UK until their rollout has been achieved.

[spidermonkey09]

I’m not sure what to think about the whole EU/UK vaccine supply row/bunfight.

It’s not surprised me to see a little bit of smug - we got there first - nationalism from the UK (which isn’t pretty). But I’m surprised how the EU seem to have nearly thrown all their toys out of the pram in response....

What a mess.

It won't turn us into Farage to admit that the EU are being tossers on this one. The misinformation about the AZ vaccine is really bad, particularly Macron's comments today. I'm also not impressed by the misuse of statistics in the "suitability for over 65s" debate, if you can call it that. We will find out just how effective the AZ jab is very soon from our own monitoring but I would be astonished if it was anything other than very effective, as expected.

More generally, the schism between the RCT data puritans in the medical/ scientific profession and 'perfect is the enemy of good' advocates has been very interesting to observe. For once, I think the UK government/ UK scientists have got this one spot on.

[petejh]

U.K. Covid19 Vaccinations - 1st doses up to 29/01/21

7,891,184

A 443,985 increase on yesterday and ABOVE the daily average needed (418,166) to hit target of 15m by Feb 15th



source: https://twitter.com/SharePickers

[petejh]

All I'd say about the UK / EU vaccine situation is try to imagine the current situation 180 degrees reversed, and be honest with yourself about what you'd be saying about the UK. Apply it to the EU. All good. 

[ali k]

All I'd say about the UK / EU vaccine situation is try to imagine the current situation 180 degrees reversed, and be honest with yourself about what you'd be saying about the UK. Apply it to the EU. All good.

Funnily enough I was thinking exactly that earlier. If the production issues were in the UK facilities and not the EU, would the UK govt just let it slide with AZ while their pre-ordered doses didn’t turn up on time? Or would they be kicking up a fuss? And also would they just sit happily watching a different vaccine produced in the UK carry on being exported elsewhere, rather than say “we’ll have some of that thank you very much”?

[tomtom]

Well that escalated fast! The EU has pressed the ‘nuclear’ button of invoking article 16 of the NI border agreement. Stopping the free border between NI and RoI - in this case for vaccines.

Unionists are now frothing at the mouth saying we should invoke it for everything.

All of this really isn’t a good look EU...

[Oldmanmatt]

The Texan Epidemiologist has done another round up. Yes, it is US centric, but most of it applies to us to:
https://www.facebook.com/101805971467321/posts/256008142713769/

“ Variant B.1.351 (also known as 501Y.V2; first discovered in South Africa)...

...is, yes, in the United States.

Importantly, it was discovered in two individuals who didn’t know each other AND hadn’t recently travelled. This tells us, epidemiologists, that it’s been spreading within the community (and we just didn’t know about it). We aren’t surprised. This also strongly suggests that others are infected with B.1.351 too. Unfortunately, we don’t know how many people because B.1.351 isn’t easily detectable. PCR tests won’t tell us if someone has this new variant compared to an old variant. PCR tests CAN tell us this with B.1.1.7 (the variant first discovered in the U.K.)

Earlier this week, Moderna and Pfizer confirmed that their vaccines still work against this variant. However, it doesn’t work as well as against the old variants (about a 6-fold difference). Despite this reduction, neutralizing titer levels with B.1.351 remain above levels that are expected to be protective. Moderna is working on a booster that would work much better against this particular variant, just in case we need it down the road.

Today, Novavax also came out with important information about B.1.351...
1. They released, for the first time, “real world” data about the vaccine effectiveness against B.1.351. This is opposed to the Moderna and Pfizer vaccine petri dish studies (which are done in a controlled environment and sometimes don’t represent what happens in the real world with environmental exposures). The Novavax vaccine also works against B.1.351. Reduced efficacy, but still works.
2. They are also changing up the vaccine formula just in case we need it down the road.
3. Unfortunately, Novavax also found that prior “natural” COVID19 infection (with an old variant) does not always protect against B.1.351 (while the vaccine does)

So, what does this mean? Three things...
1. Get vaccinated. Our best defense against B.1.351  or any other variant right now is a vaccination.
2. We need to stop transmission (of B.1.351 and all other variants). And we need to stop it now. The more this virus jumps from one person to the next, the more opportunity this virus has to mutate. Our vaccines work for now, but that might not be the case in the next mutation or two or three or ten.
3. There’s now some serious pressure on Johnson and Johnson to perform.

This is worrisome news, but we knew this was coming. Stay vigilant. And, honestly, I would be much more worried about what mutations we have not detected in the US. We rank 48th in the world on mutation surveillance.

Have I convinced you yet that it’s important to invest in public health before a pandemic hits?

Love, YLE

Data Sources:
Moderna: https://investors.modernatx.com/news-releases/news-release-details/moderna-covid-19-vaccine-retains-neutralizing-activity-against

Novavax: https://ir.novavax.com/node/15506/pdf

[slab_happy]

Sensible, informative piece from the Grauniad:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2021/jan/29/everyday-covid-mistakes-we-are-all-still-making

[mrjonathanr]

Funnily enough I was thinking exactly that earlier. If the production issues were in the UK facilities and not the EU, would the UK govt just let it slide with AZ while their pre-ordered doses didn’t turn up on time? Or would they be kicking up a fuss? And also would they just sit happily watching a different vaccine produced in the UK carry on being exported elsewhere, rather than say “we’ll have some of that thank you very much”?

No need to ask the question is there, really? Hardly surprised the EU does not trust UK but this is hardly a masterclass in diplomacy.

[petejh]

All I'd say about the UK / EU vaccine situation is try to imagine the current situation 180 degrees reversed, and be honest with yourself about what you'd be saying about the UK. Apply it to the EU. All good.

Funnily enough I was thinking exactly that earlier. If the production issues were in the UK facilities and not the EU, would the UK govt just let it slide with AZ while their pre-ordered doses didn’t turn up on time? Or would they be kicking up a fuss? And also would they just sit happily watching a different vaccine produced in the UK carry on being exported elsewhere, rather than say “we’ll have some of that thank you very much”?

You're suggesting that ramp-up production issues at an EU plant is the main cause of the EU's problems with vaccine supply and roll-out?
But nothing to do with its 3-month slower procurement or 2-month slower approval programme.. And that the UK's early procurement policy, early approval of vaccine, decision to use one dose, or roll-out of vaccinations, should not be acknowledged.. Interesting bias!

May I suggest a career selling pvc double-glazing might be a good fit for you. Failing that special advisor to the PM. 

[ali k]

You're suggesting that ramp-up production issues at an EU plant is the main cause of the EU's problems with vaccine supply and roll-out?
But nothing to do with its 3-month slower procurement or 2-month slower approval programme.. And that the UK's early procurement policy, early approval of vaccine, decision to use one dose, or roll-out of vaccinations, should not be acknowledged.. Interesting bias!

You’re conflating lots of things here. Vaccine approval date is irrelevant to this as the vaccines in both cases were pre-ordered for delivery whether they were approved or not. As is the decision to use one dose or two. Irrelevant to this.

I’m not comparing the success of UK vs EU rollout or numbers vaccinated, which is what you seem to be doing. UK is quite clearly ahead on that front. The EU-AstraZeneca spat seems to boil down to contractual obligations and then expanding out into a discussion about who’s engaging in vaccine nationalism, neither of which seem to be black and white to me.

[chris j]

Vaccine approval date has nothing to do with this, true, but it is relevant that the EU procurement process signed their deal with AZ 3 months after the UK, hence the UK production facilities are further down the road and past the teething troubles the Belgian plant is suffering. The Commission appears to be using the UK supply as a convenient scapegoat to distract the considerable  heat they have been receiving from member states about their lacklustre procurement program (i recall a fair amount of grandstanding in the late summer about how they were going to pay less than anyone else in the world) and bully their way into supplies that from the contract interpretations i've looked at they appear to have very little claim to!