[andy popp]

Why, or - rather - in what sense better?

The comparison with Denmark is a perfectly valid one, it's just that the data doesn't support the argument you were trying to make with it. But feel free to make the comparison with Norway; I just doubt it will be any more flattering to Sweden.

[A.Greenhorne]

Errr I’ve become a bit confused so I’ll ask the original question with Norway instead of Sweden.

Why do they have similarly unchanging all cause mortality rates yet relatively different approaches to coronavirus management?

[andy popp]

You said "better," suggesting Norway was a more valid comparison. In fact, Norway and Denmark make equally good comparisons to Sweden in this discussion. You can't just abandon your first comparison because it doesn't deliver the result you want.

Why do they have similarly unchanging all cause mortality rates

But do they? You made a pretty strong but unevidenced claim about total mortality in Denmark over the last decade, but it was easy to demonstrate that it was completely erroneous. Why should anyone trust any other assertion you make?

[A.Greenhorne]

I’m not asking you to trust me or making an argument. I’m asking a question you sniffy twat

[A.Greenhorne]

Can I have another negative Karma point for calling Reeve a pious sanctimonious omnipotent bellend, thanks 

[reeve]

Can I have another negative Karma point for calling Reeve a pious sanctimonious omnipotent bellend, thanks

As I am only one of those things, your negative karma was well deserved

[spidermonkey09]

Not this again.

[andy popp]

I’m not asking you to trust me or making an argument. I’m asking a question you sniffy twat

I did answer some of your questions. You made several linked assertions; that is making an argument (e.g. "If Sweden managed well without the more extreme measures, then it seems they’re doing something right?" There is a question mark, but really this is a rhetorical question). And if you're making assertions without evidence then you are asking people to trust you. If not then you've just knocked away the foundations of the basic premise behind your question.

[andy popp]

Not this again.

Sweden? Yeah, I'm sick of bloody Sweden (and I love the place).

[Oldmanmatt]

Not this again.

Sweden? Yeah, I'm sick of bloody Sweden (and I love the place).

I rather liked Denmark.
Well, Aarhus, anyway. Spent six months there in the early ‘90s. Oh boy, the girls!
Very nearly stayed there for one of them.
OT. Sorry.

[A.Greenhorne]

It was based on this article and looking at some statistics. Like I said my maths isn’t great and it wasn’t intentional rhetoric although I see now it looked that way. No need to be such a bunch of cunts about it.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20201116/Study-compares-deaths-in-Sweden-and-Norway-before-and-after-COVID-pandemic.aspx

[A.Greenhorne]

Can I have another negative Karma point for calling Reeve a pious sanctimonious omnipotent bellend, thanks

As I am only one of those things, your negative karma was well deserved

Piety comes with lots of baggage

[andy popp]

No need to be such a bunch of cunts about it.

I wasn't the one who called someone a sniffy twat. I've actually tried to take your posts in good faith and on their own terms. That was probably a mistake.

[A.Greenhorne]

Sniffy twats always have to maintain the moral high ground once it’s created. Now it becomes a question of character which is rather helpful. I handed you that one by delivering the insult, but facts are facts as you rightly pointed out. The question was a genuine one, highlighted by the article. I was asking what you guys thought. I shifted to try and make up for the flaws in my posts each time you pointed out one, until eventually the character flaw was highlighted. ‘Can’t be trusted’. No doubt you’ll find some more pedantry to go at in this paragraph. I’m guessing there’s no answer available here to the Norway -Sweden total mortality comparison. Please feel free to end it by asserting* your authority as the voice of absolute moderate sense in a world otherwise inhabited by mindless buffoons, oh great and mighty woke wizard

[petejh]

It was based on this article and looking at some statistics. Like I said my maths isn’t great and it wasn’t intentional rhetoric although I see now it looked that way. No need to be such a bunch of cunts about it.

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.news-medical.net/amp/news/20201116/Study-compares-deaths-in-Sweden-and-Norway-before-and-after-COVID-pandemic.aspx

My best guess is that geography and culture matter quite a lot, and this detail may come out more clearly in the post pandemic analysis.
Scandinavian countries have their respective population density (lack of), perhaps have different travel and work patterns (distributed, many at home?), maybe different patterns of socialising (relative lack of indoor socialising compared to France, Italy, UK?), recreation might be based around the outdoors more than the urban shopping precinct.

Based on the above hypothesis, a country such as Sweden could get away with a far less restrictive response to a respiratory infection than a country such as Italy because Scandinavians have a less closely ‘transmissive’ culture and geography. Australia/NZ too. Plenty of space per head of population. Like the difference between doing your shopping in a busy Tesco metro and a quiet rural co-op.
Perhaps Norway is being far more cautious than it could be for the same overall effect on deaths.

That’s my guess anyway. Happy to be shown it’s a load of shit.
But clearly the UK and many of the western and eastern European countries are pretty fucked due to their population density and  interconnectedness.

[tomtom]

Anyway.

Sweden has a death rate due to covid of 817 per million.

For Norway it’s 79 per million.

From the Worldometers website. I think Sweden screwed up - especially as the negative effect of their soft restrictions on their economy were similar to those neighbours (Denmark, Norway, Finland) who had much harder restrictions. From the two Swedes I know this screw up is now widely acknowledged and they are now I believe rolling in restrictions in line with their neighbours.

A lot will come out in the wash - but clearly - from all the ‘experiments’ that have been carried out in how to manage the virus by the 100 or so nations afflicted, the only way to control it is to restrict social contact. Via whatever means works for that nation.

[abarro81]

You know that (despite your protestations to just be asking a question and not making an argument) you didn't actually ask a question in the post that kicked this off right?

More covidian cult curiosities

Sweden - minimal lockdown policy
Currently 2% covid death rate

U.K. cluster fuck - 3% covid death rate

Wait for it.... but the guardian says....
whatever those paying the most and exerting the most force say

[A.Greenhorne]

I’m not claiming papal infallibility barrows. I know I’m a twat. But it remains that I made an effort to admit the flaws of my posts.

Pete’s theory I get in a U.K. vs Sweden argument but the comparison is between Norway and Sweden. Tom’s analysis seems fair based on ‘covid’ statistics but not total mortality which is what I was wondering about.

And I do think the guardian is a rag

[tomtom]

Yes - but what question are you asking?

[Bonjoy]

Pete’s theory I get in a U.K. vs Sweden argument but the comparison is between Norway and Sweden.

What's your hypothesis? That's a genuine (not loaded) question.

[A.Greenhorne]

I don’t have one, that’s why I asked on here

[jwi]

Anyone who claim Sweden's response to the covid19 pandemic is a success is a Swede, seriously deluded or mislead. Many-a claimant seems to be a combination of at least two of the characteristics.

[Oldmanmatt]

I don’t have one, that’s why I asked on here

I’m about to head out etc etc.

Isn’t this all a little Uriah Heep?

Collar (assertion of lowly status) and Cuffs (vocabulary and grammar) don’t match.

Edit: Obviously I’m wandering into Ad Hominem, too busy to flesh it out properly.

[andy popp]

oh great and mighty woke wizard

Does that come with a cape and nice hat?

[Oldmanmatt]

oh great and mighty woke wizard

Does that come with a cape and nice hat?

You certainly have the beard!