[Paul B]

I'm getting bored of quoting Jen Williams from M.E.N. but testing in the NW has completely collapsed today in all of the hot spots.

To echo Bonjoy, one neighbour has had a kid at school for a week. He's been sent home as someone tested positive and he and his Mum now both have symptoms. See previous paragraph regarding availability of testing.

[tomtom]

It’s so incompetent it’s almost deliberate. Everyone said there would be increased need when the schools went back - so... how come no capacity was created for now. Is Dido Harding really THAT shit at her job?

[mrjonathanr]

How many senior lab managers are also academics returning to work at unis now?

[tomtom]

How many senior lab managers are also academics returning to work at unis now?

Not necessarily true - both lab managers I know at Universities have non teaching positions. Though there’s all the associated shit (sorry work) of students returning that will impact their work load.

Note n=2 etc...

[TobyD]

It’s so incompetent it’s almost deliberate. Everyone said there would be increased need when the schools went back - so... how come no capacity was created for now. Is Dido Harding really THAT shit at her job?

Yes. She totally screwed up at talk talk, and clearly has the job because she was at university with Boris Johnson

[Stabbsy]

@oldmanmatt - the test booking in Devon is bizarre, I needed to get our youngest tested after he threw a temperature on Monday as I've picked up my first offshore work since June and need a clean bill of health. Monday afternoon/evening there were no tests bookable anywhere. Mid-morning on Tuesday I had a choice of Exeter, Tiverton or Taunton with each having 30+ slots available in the next few days. I don't know if we were just lucky with checking bang on the time the slots were released (this was about 11:30) or what...

Apparently to do with the way tests are released to all local test centres. My sister (nurse in Stockport) had to get a test last week. Offered Inverness and Aberdeen as nearest options. No priority testing for NHS staff as I understand it, but it was suggested she try again at a particular time and, lo and behold, tests in Ashton. I’ll be trying the same knowledge as we’re quarantined until we can get a test - wife’s a GP and can’t go to work until we get tested.

[webbo]

It was advised to be 6 - now it’s THE LAW.. I believe.

Not that THE LAW is something our government plans to abide by..

Unless you are going shooting then more than 6 is ok.

[slab_happy]

Unless you are going shooting then more than 6 is ok.

Or climbing, to be fair -- as long as it's "organised":

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do#visiting-public-places-and-taking-part-in-activities

The list of "organised sport or licensed outdoor physical activity that you can do in groups of more than six" is at 3.16.

[tomtom]

Unless you are going shooting then more than 6 is ok.

Or climbing, to be fair -- as long as it's "organised":

https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do/coronavirus-outbreak-faqs-what-you-can-and-cant-do#visiting-public-places-and-taking-part-in-activities

The list of "organised sport or licensed outdoor physical activity that you can do in groups of more than six" is at 3.16.

And includes climbing...

[SA Chris]

with guidelines only covering indoors climbing.

Most of my outdoor bouldering time is spent shooting the shit anyway, so think it's OK.

[slab_happy]

And includes climbing...

Yup. Not claiming that any of it it makes any particular sense , but we are on the list -- it's not like a singular exception has been made so that people can go grouse-shooting (the government's cronyism is being displayed in other ways at the moment).

[fatneck]

Back to testing, I've had three over the last few months (all negative) with zero hassle.

Now I have two staff self isolating, one had a test on Saturday - still awaiting result and the other couldn't get a test despite me registering them through the key worker scheme and labelling the request as "critical". There was no difference in their (in)ability to get a test whichever way they approached it and now awaiting delivery of a home testing kit - who knows how long that will take to get a result...

In the mean time, we are continuing with the guidance that anyone who has been in contact with either of these people can continue as normal until there is a positive test but I am worried there will already have been a spread and we'll end up with no one to run our "essential" service - especially with cases ramping up and more and more people in difficult financial situations.

Absolute shambles.....

[Stabbsy]

Having just spent the morning trying to book tests, I think half the problem is the website and its ability to deal with the demand. 12-15 times through the process, all bar one it has said the website is busy and gone no further. On one occasion, I got offered a slot in Liverpool (from Sheffield) or a walk through test locally and then the website crashed.

Absolute shambles is an understatement.

[Paul B]

Or climbing, to be fair -- as long as it's "organised":

I think this is pretty mad:

We initially suspended our events, recreation programmes, club rides and coach-led activities in these areas (parts of Blackburn, Oldham and Pendle), however after discussions with colleagues in Government and the three respective councils this week, we are pleased to say that British Cycling-sanctioned activities are now permitted to resume. However, you should continue to follow all other applicable Government guidance on social distancing and group size.

Please note that in the areas with additional restrictions, informal cycling activity with people from outside your household or support bubble is not permitted. More information on this can be found here.

So, in Pendle, the rule of zero continues unless you go on a club ride!?

[tomtom]

So, in Pendle, the rule of zero continues unless you go on a club ride!?

Who knows.

I suspect there will be plenty of University Clubs/Societies using things like this to arrange 'meetings'... 'training events' etc.. Actually - thats being unfair - most people are pretty sensible and reasonable, but it leaves the door open.

Having just spent the morning trying to book tests, I think half the problem is the website and its ability to deal with the demand. 12-15 times through the process, all bar one it has said the website is busy and gone no further. On one occasion, I got offered a slot in Liverpool (from Sheffield) or a walk through test locally and then the website crashed.

So I predict that in 3-7 days time there will be a big spike in positive test results when all of this eventually filters through.

In the meantime the test centres are blaming the labs, The labs are saying eh? we're alright its someone else...

[Sidehaas]

I thought I saw some BMC guidance that allowed for climbing clubs to continue arranging meets for larger groups up to 30 too.
Here it is:
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/covid19-restarting-club-meets

I'd be interested to know what the police would say if they turned up to a busy bouldering crag. Is it mingling even if you've arrived on your own and don't know the other people there? Bit of a minefield but I'd like to think we'd be a long way down their list of people/places to go after.

[slab_happy]

I thought I saw some BMC guidance that allowed for climbing clubs to continue arranging meets for larger groups up to 30 too.
Here it is:
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/covid19-restarting-club-meets

I'd be interested to know what the police would say if they turned up to a busy bouldering crag. Is it mingling even if you've arrived on your own and don't know the other people there? Bit of a minefield but I'd like to think we'd be a long way down their list of people/places to go after.

Yeah, club meets fall into the "organized" category. I think the logic is that organized events will (as required by the rules) conduct a risk assessment and follow guidance from their sport's governing bodies, whereas informal gatherings might be sloppier re: risk. Whether that turns out to be the case remains to be seen.

I've been at a busy bouldering crag (Burbage South Valley) and people have generally seemed to be pretty good at keeping to separate boulders, or keeping very distanced when different groups are on different bits of the same boulder -- I had some nice chats across a very proper number of metres.

[tomtom]

Meanwhile - it appears you can 'cheat' the system and that as long as you get the QR code for a test it can be used at any centre...

https://news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-key-workers-and-families-share-their-struggles-to-get-covid-19-tests-12072426

Where this woman (a Dr) used an Aberdeen postcode to get a slot in Scotland - and used the QR code at a test centre in SW London - then got the result 24 hours later.

Worth a try anyone here needing a test? Expect it'll take a day or two before they close this loophole.

And might make getting a test in Aberdeen trickier too of course...

edit: as also reported here: https://www.oxfordmail.co.uk/news/18719343.revealed-hack-getting-coronavirus-test-oxford/

[Oldmanmatt]

There has been a dramatic uptick in hospital admissions and ventilator bed occupancy over the last 24 hrs.



Marked increase in deaths, too, though that partly is the catchup from weekend under reporting.

[chris j]

Meanwhile - it appears you can 'cheat' the system and that as long as you get the QR code for a test it can be used at any centre...
/

This was what they told me at the Exeter test centre, the QR code was the important thing to show you have a lab processing slot. Once you have one of those it apparently doesn't matter where you get the test done as the test is matched up with the lab slot and sent off accordingly. Certainly down here the test centres aren't near capacity as the choke point is somewhere else in the system.

[Oldmanmatt]

Does this surprise anyone?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/kids-day-care-spread-covid-19-parents-teachers-cdc-says-n1239887?fbclid=IwAR2vUp2e5xEHmISb8HeQOkAwtaI6l8BB1cs03v5Goy5Q2BccHI2f66ghyis

[Nutty]

Meanwhile - it appears you can 'cheat' the system and that as long as you get the QR code for a test it can be used at any centre...
/

This was what they told me at the Exeter test centre, the QR code was the important thing to show you have a lab processing slot. Once you have one of those it apparently doesn't matter where you get the test done as the test is matched up with the lab slot and sent off accordingly. Certainly down here the test centres aren't near capacity as the choke point is somewhere else in the system.

Does make you wonder why the website directs people to test centres hundreds of miles away then, if booking a test is mainly about having a lab processing slot? Presumably another 'mutant algorithm' trying to get the tests distributed geographically according to some quotas it's been given.

[Sidehaas]

Does this surprise anyone?

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/kids-day-care-spread-covid-19-parents-teachers-cdc-says-n1239887?fbclid=IwAR2vUp2e5xEHmISb8HeQOkAwtaI6l8BB1cs03v5Goy5Q2BccHI2f66ghyis

No, but I think the idea of asking a two year old to wear a mask (as the article says is recommended by the CDC) is ridiculous.

[tomtom]

Does make you wonder why the website directs people to test centres hundreds of miles away then, if booking a test is mainly about having a lab processing slot? Presumably another 'mutant algorithm' trying to get the tests distributed geographically according to some quotas it's been given.

I think its just shit system design... whilst this might help people cheat the system in the short term - it makes it look more mickey mouse than heath robinson... Give yourselves a round of applause Deloitte / Serco / Dido.

Also clearly shows the weakpoint in the system is in the processing/analysis of the samples (that we now know).

Having had two tests in the past - without your NHS number (and who really knows that?) then I'd have thought the only way to determine where the person lives (to identify local hotspots - thats done on a postcode basis) is via the home address and postcode given. So - if there are quite a few 'Terry's from (eg) Crawley using a barcode from a postcode and test centre in Aberdeen to get a test near his home - this is going to royally fuck up Aberdeen and Crawleys figures.

Next step (I bet) will be for staff at centres to turn people away who's postcode of home and the test centre doesn't match where they are getting tested etc... But if you did such a clampdown and have say 50000 people a day gaming the system this way (quite possible) then thats 50000 slots that would go to waste...  Damned if you do damned if you don't...

[tomtom]

So - listened to a very interesting Prof. McNally (Birmingham) on C4 news this evening...

He said it wasnt the number of tests being done that was the issue - just that we were not being very clever with how we used them. He cited a good example. For a school - instead of screening every person individually - swab all the staff and pupils in class/bubble/year groups - but then lump their samples all together for one test*. Then - if that class or year or bubble is positive - go back and re-test them all. Same principle for care homes - doctors surgeries - a family - anywhere.

He basically said the testing labs were good - but the focus on ONLY testing individuals was a real mistake and the government could easily rectify this - but they didnt listen...

*I suspect that doesnt mean one swab does 30 kids :D