[petejh]

The people not heeding govt advice about social distancing/ socialising are quite simply being selfish. Putting their desires above the bigger picture of people dying.

Selfish actions are not mutually exclusive to the over 50/60’s but look how that age group have recently voted... (twice).

Ooh controversial TT! Not agreeing or disagreeing, but noting that there's a powerful undertone in this crisis of them and us.


Just watched the Dominic cummings story on bbc2. Didn't know much about him before watching this, seems like a bit of a cock, deliberately provocative by walking round like a tramp while everyone else is in suits (because he's that important and special he can wear what he wants), and dedicated to scheming. My first instinct - the prog seems nicely timed - perhaps a combo of political and security service vested interest in getting it on air now - to seed the implication that someone like cummings, who appears to be a maverick with juvenile ideas and who's never known real life outside political scheming, is a poor choice of character to have around advising in this situation which is very much real life and death. Relatively harmless (unless you're a politician) provided nothing life and death is in his hands. But faith in medical experts is now front and centre in the public mind - real science not social science or the visions of a maverick Machiavellian. Won't be surprised if Cummings is gone before the end of covid outbreak.
edit: or perhaps that's totally wrong and he'll turn come up with a masterplan and there'll be a statue of him in London one day!

[TobyD]

Ooh controversial TT! Not agreeing or disagreeing, but noting that there's a powerful undertone in this crisis of them and us.

Do you mean older / younger? This crisis certainly seems to bring out the best and the worst in people.

I thought this worth sharing; BBC News - Coronavirus: NHS staff 'at risk' over lack of protective gear
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-51950276
Team I work in have been given one paper surgical mask each. Pretty seriously concerned about this.

[petejh]

Yes older / younger. Or higher risk / lower risk.

The PPE thing, gov could easily requisition at a guess 10s of thousands of FFP3 masks from industrial services companies and other industrial companies who have stores full of them because they use them daily.

[Muenchener]

Bavarian state gov yesterday announced compulsory reporting - and potential requisitioning - of all medical-relevant supplies.

[TobyD]

Yes older / younger. Or higher risk / lower risk.

The PPE thing, gov could easily requisition at a guess 10s of thousands of FFP3 masks from industrial services companies and other industrial companies who have stores full of them because they use them daily.

Blimey,  if your people have stocks why not get in touch with someone and see if they can be used. I really don't feel terribly reassured about potentially very close and prolonged exposure to high virus load with a paper napkin over my face. Even worse for people in ICUs.

[BrutusTheBear]

A police officer we know has been instructed to be a ‘first responder’, they have been issued with no PPE and will be coming into contact with anyone.  She was at Screwfix yesterday buying the kind of face mask you would use for a bit of DIY.. not sure how effective these masks are but very concerning that the police are unable to supply frontline officers with basic PPE.

[SamT]

Chatting to a mate (on the phone) last night.   His sister runs the geriatric ward in a large hospital, which has also been designated the Covid-19 ward.  (I guess they have the expertise in dealing with ill old folk).
They've had one death already. 

He says she's bricking it. They've no clue as to what's going on, no plan, no proper hazmat stuff, nowt.  Nobody's telling them what to do.  Pure chaos.  And its not even started.

Maybe I'm doing them a dis-service, though the medium of chinese whispers, but my mates not particularly prone to exaggeration. 

[spidermonkey09]

Are people still planning to go climbing outside at the weekend? Desperate to escape the house while I still can. My gut feeling is that its still ok but interested in what others think.

[SamT]

Are people still planning to go climbing outside at the weekend? Desperate to escape the house while I still can. My gut feeling is that its still ok but interested in what others think.

If you and a mate drive out to Moscar, walk over to Stanage end, potter about and drive back. Cant see an issue. 

Pad party at Gorilla Warfare, with various groups from Manchester, Nottingham and  Sheffield, using the train/bus, sharing crisps and Redbush tea from the thermos.  Not really cricket.

Common sense init.

[Paul B]

Are people still planning to go climbing outside at the weekend? Desperate to escape the house while I still can. My gut feeling is that its still ok but interested in what others think.

I'm going out on my bike today. I'm going to be a hell of a lot more cautious on the descents than usual (the pheasant has no agenda). I doubt I'll see anyone.

[teestub]

I reckon we could do with a separate thread on climbing, be interesting to see how it progresses over the next few weeks. 

[JamieG]

I was having this exact discussion yesterday evening with my wife. And we came to the conclusion it isn't just about whether or not your are putting yourself at risk from either coronavirus or injury, but about perception. If people see you out and about carrying on as normal going climbing then they are probably less likely to be cautious themselves in their own activities. I.e. "I saw some lads climbing earlier, why can't I go down the pub?"  So as gutting as it is I'm trying to be strict with myself and stick to the fingerboarding.

I might crack though . . . I'm in the house with a 15 month old in full push the boundaries mode. 

[gme]

I intend to go climbing, meeting up with a mate and going for a boulder but suspect we wont see anyone else.  A couple of friends were supposed to be stopping with us but my wife has said no so they will have to camp if they do come up. Will happily meet them to climb though.

The crags will be empty but they always are.

To counter all the news about how bad it is in hospitals at the minute i have family working in hospitals in north east, a doctor and a buyer. The buyer is manic busy spending millions on stuff in prep for what ever happens, they have re opened old wards and got more beds etc. However they both say the hospitals are really quite, way quieter than normal and all is calm. There is a sense that something is about to happen but at the minute its quiter than a normal March.

[SamT]

The crags will be empty but they always are.

amen to that

To counter all the news about how bad it is in hospitals at the minute i have family working in hospitals in north east, a doctor and a buyer. The buyer is manic busy spending millions on stuff in prep for what ever happens, they have re opened old wards and got more beds etc.

good to hear

However they both say the hospitals are really quite, way quieter than normal and all is calm. There is a sense that something is about to happen but at the minute its quiter than a normal March.

Because all non essential ops have been cancelled??  (and a lot of the neds are out panic buying instead of rocking up at A&E cause they have a splinter ?? )

[petejh]

Yes older / younger. Or higher risk / lower risk.

The PPE thing, gov could easily requisition at a guess 10s of thousands of FFP3 masks from industrial services companies and other industrial companies who have stores full of them because they use them daily.

Blimey,  if your people have stocks why not get in touch with someone and see if they can be used. I really don't feel terribly reassured about potentially very close and prolonged exposure to high virus load with a paper napkin over my face. Even worse for people in ICUs.

We have 300 in a warehouse about 100 feet away from where I'm sitting. We're a small division of a gigantic group. Each part of the group will have stock. If the group decides it wants to donate its stock then that's the exco's decision (unless gov enforce requisition, which they might well do). Those directors have eyes and ears like the rest of us so must know there's a need. If in a month or two's time it's clear there's a shortage (likely) and if the group exco haven't donated then I'll do what little I can.

[JamieG]

Fair enough. To be honest I might have to head out before I get cabin fever anyway. I am not the best at being stuck indoors under normal circumstances. I'm lucky that I'm near all the Chew Valley grit. I doubt anyone has been up Alderman, Running Hill Pits, Pots and Pans etc for ages. Even Wimberry is almost always deserted.

[petejh]

A police officer we know has been instructed to be a ‘first responder’, they have been issued with no PPE and will be coming into contact with anyone.  She was at Screwfix yesterday buying the kind of face mask you would use for a bit of DIY.. not sure how effective these masks are but very concerning that the police are unable to supply frontline officers with basic PPE.

It'll be either an ffp3, p2 or p1. P3 offers the highest protection and the standard of mask to be worn by NHS staff; but any of those (p2 or p1) are  better than a surgical mask.
Regards effectiveness, they're as effective as you can get in that type of 'temporary dust mask' type of PPE, without going the next step and wearing something more restrictive and cumbersome such as a half mask or going further again and using a face shield or full face mask - which aren't practical or relevant for 99.9% of people.

From what I've read they're only a useful preventative measure in very specific circumstances of doing a job where you have get up close into the personal space of someone who's coughing. Masks aren't going to add any benefit in preventing infection of people going about normal daily activities. Partly because they change behaviour - such as the wearer repeatedly touching their face to adjust the mask, less hand-washing behaviour by those wearing masks; and partly because transmission is by droplets on surfaces.

[gme]

The crags will be empty but they always are.

amen to that

To counter all the news about how bad it is in hospitals at the minute i have family working in hospitals in north east, a doctor and a buyer. The buyer is manic busy spending millions on stuff in prep for what ever happens, they have re opened old wards and got more beds etc.

good to hear

However they both say the hospitals are really quite, way quieter than normal and all is calm. There is a sense that something is about to happen but at the minute its quiter than a normal March.

Because all non essential ops have been cancelled??  (and a lot of the neds are out panic buying instead of rocking up at A&E cause they have a splinter ?? )

I think the latter is definately having an effect.

[SA Chris]

The crags will be empty but they always are.

bear in mind with walls closing, weather improving and people at home during the day this may change. If anyone is at the crag, be prudent and keep your distance.

[gme]

It wont.

Maybe if i dont go to bowden or kyloe to be sure though.

Anyone at home all day should either be in isolation, at work or looking for a new job.

[Johnny Brown]

To counter all the news about how bad it is in hospitals at the minute i have family working in hospitals in north east, a doctor and a buyer. The buyer is manic busy spending millions on stuff in prep for what ever happens, they have re opened old wards and got more beds etc. However they both say the hospitals are really quite, way quieter than normal and all is calm. There is a sense that something is about to happen but at the minute its quiter than a normal March.

Silvia Stringhini, an italian doctor on twitter ten days ago:

4/ I myself watched with some amazement the reorganization of the entire hospital in the past week, when our current enemy was still in the shadows: the wards slowly "emptied", elective activities were interrupted, intensive care were freed up to create as many beds as possible.

5/ All this rapid transformation brought an atmosphere of silence and surreal emptiness to the corridors of the hospital that we did not yet understand, waiting for a war that was yet to begin and that many (including me) were not so sure would ever come with such ferocity.

6/ I still remember my night call a week ago when I was waiting for the results of a swab. When I think about it, my anxiety over one possible case seems almost ridiculous and unjustified, now that I've seen what's happening. Well, the situation now is dramatic to say the least.

7/ The war has literally exploded and battles are uninterrupted day and night. But now that need for beds has arrived in all its drama. One after the other the departments that had been emptied fill up at an impressive pace.

8/ The boards with the names of the patients, of different colours depending on the operating unit, are now all red and instead of surgery you see the diagnosis, which is always the damned same: bilateral interstitial pneumonia.

11/ Cases are multiplying, we arrive at a rate of 15-20 admissions per day all for the same reason. The results of the swabs now come one after the other: positive, positive, positive. Suddenly the E.R. is collapsing.

13/ Someone already to be intubated and go to intensive care. For others it's too late... Every ventilator becomes like gold: those in operating theatres that have now suspended their non-urgent activity become intensive care places that did not exist before.

[JamieG]

Phew that is pretty bleak. I think for some places this is the calm before the storm.

Again my Dad being ridiculous. He is being sensible about staying in isolation, since they live in rural France. But when it comes to the food he buys thats a different story!

Apparently this morning he was woken up by a car honking. It was the local shop doing a driving food service. My Dad bought a few essentials, including Roquefort cheese. I think my definition of essentials differs from my Dad's! 

[SA Chris]

FFS, just saw an elderly lady walking back from nursery holding grandchild's hand in close quarters with two other mothers, one with a pram, and about 3 other toddlers. No cases locally yet, but you never know.

[gme]

To counter all the news about how bad it is in hospitals at the minute i have family working in hospitals in north east, a doctor and a buyer. The buyer is manic busy spending millions on stuff in prep for what ever happens, they have re opened old wards and got more beds etc. However they both say the hospitals are really quite, way quieter than normal and all is calm. There is a sense that something is about to happen but at the minute its quiter than a normal March.

Silvia Stringhini, an italian doctor on twitter ten days ago:

4/ I myself watched with some amazement the reorganization of the entire hospital in the past week, when our current enemy was still in the shadows: the wards slowly "emptied", elective activities were interrupted, intensive care were freed up to create as many beds as possible.

5/ All this rapid transformation brought an atmosphere of silence and surreal emptiness to the corridors of the hospital that we did not yet understand, waiting for a war that was yet to begin and that many (including me) were not so sure would ever come with such ferocity.

6/ I still remember my night call a week ago when I was waiting for the results of a swab. When I think about it, my anxiety over one possible case seems almost ridiculous and unjustified, now that I've seen what's happening. Well, the situation now is dramatic to say the least.

7/ The war has literally exploded and battles are uninterrupted day and night. But now that need for beds has arrived in all its drama. One after the other the departments that had been emptied fill up at an impressive pace.

8/ The boards with the names of the patients, of different colours depending on the operating unit, are now all red and instead of surgery you see the diagnosis, which is always the damned same: bilateral interstitial pneumonia.

11/ Cases are multiplying, we arrive at a rate of 15-20 admissions per day all for the same reason. The results of the swabs now come one after the other: positive, positive, positive. Suddenly the E.R. is collapsing.

13/ Someone already to be intubated and go to intensive care. For others it's too late... Every ventilator becomes like gold: those in operating theatres that have now suspended their non-urgent activity become intensive care places that did not exist before.

Yet again i love how you can really bring any positivity down to earth with a bang. I really hope i never get stuck in a lift with you.

225000 cases, 9277 deaths and 81000 recovered world wide still is so far away from what people are saying will happen, so i am still trying to sort out real stuff and look on the bright side.

[spidermonkey09]

There's positivity and there's wilfully ignoring the facts for the sake of positivity. Looking on the bright side is great but it sounds like (I may be wrong) you're saying its all a fuss over nothing.