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B grades the Mellow lot seem to be using (Read 11529 times)

36chambers

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I can only see the B grade being of use when grading FAs and when you are a V16 crusher. They'll likely be out be a V grade either way on the easier stuff, so it's like giving new problems a grade range, and then repeaters can suggest appropriate proper grades afterwards.


Moo

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I think we're wasting oxygen talking about what these bellends have to say. Some of their videos are an entertaining watch (mostly the ones which don't have nay Americans in) but outside of that they're the typical "put me infront of a camera and I'll make myself look like an idiot" colorado bumpkin that I've been avoiding for years.

Doylo

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#Pray4FontGrades

Paul B

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Is someone going to tell them that B-grades already exist?


Monolith

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Word. B grades and beer towels. 90s bouldering represent!

Bonjoy

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Can someone remind me what problem this mindbogglingly imbecilic solution is supposed to be solving?  :wall:

Nutty

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Counting to numbers greater than your number of fingers?

SA Chris

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Word. B grades and beer towels. 90s bouldering represent!

Steve Rhodes and Allen Williams Guides ahoy !

Stabbsy

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Can someone remind me what problem this mindbogglingly imbecilic solution is supposed to be solving?  :wall:
Agreed, it's an unnecessary solution to a non-existent problem, but is it really any more imbecilic than any grading system? All climbing grades are just a numeric/alpha-numeric progression - this one is the same. They're all an attempt to describe something that has multiple dimensions in a one-dimensional way. They all give a guide to broadly how hard something is, but the reality is often somewhat different. I'm sure everyone could come up with examples of routes/problems graded (x minus 1) that they find harder than most stuff graded (x). Does that mean the grade of the easier route is wrong or just that I'm wrong? Answer is most likely neither, just that climbing difficulty is not one-dimensional.

I'd argue that, because the difficulty of routes/problems is quite personal, the linearity of climbing grades only works over a small range specific to the individual. For boulder problems, I'd say that range is even smaller than for routes because the physical requirements of the problem become that much more specific and there isn't the same opportunity for things to "average out". As a result, linearity/non-linearity of grading exists for everyone at some point on every grading system. The difference is that we're used to where that non-linearity exists on the scales that we use regularly, so maybe don't question it in the same way. If I try a Font 3B and find it more difficult than a Font 4B, I'm likely to shrug my shoulders, but what if the relative grades are 4B and 5B, 5B and 6B, 6B and 7B - surely that indicates that the Font grades aren't linear either.

I agree that the granularity at lower grades in the Font system is useful, but the granularity introduces inaccuracy as you try to pigeon hole the difficulty of a problem into a smaller and smaller slot. Less granular grades are actually far more likely to be "accurate" because there are less boundaries. Consider the range between Font 6A and 7C+, so that's 12 Font grades, 8 V-grades and 4 B-grades. If Font is better than V is better than B, then why is 12 grades the right number? Why not 16 or 20? Carry on increasing that number and where do you end up? - a graded list, with every problem neatly pigeon-holed. Now I do love a graded list, but we all know how accurate they are.

So, yes it's slightly pointless having another grade scale but I'm not sure it's an indication that they're "thick as mince". They just occupy a world where everyone climbs 8A/V11/B5, so to them it probably makes perfect sense. In the world I occupy, V grades and Font grades make sense and work adequately. If I only climbed V0, then maybe only Font grades would make sense. All of them are just descriptive tools, but the only thing that matters in the end is whether you did the problem or not.

gme

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What are V grades?

jakk

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Seems like the only thing "solved" is having smaller numbers. The grade bands at the top are the same width (although shifted by 0.5), it just adds some compression lower down, making it impossible to ever make a guidebook with the system. Plus of course it is exactly as understandable as V grades (linearly increasing numbers), so I literally can't see a point other than just being a way to let them retroactively regrade controversial stuff in their swish new system.

SA Chris

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I expect it was a result of a late night session with Class A drugs, that someone actually remembered the next morning and decided to do something about it.

habrich

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Word. B grades and beer towels. 90s bouldering represent!

Steve Rhodes and Allen Williams Guides ahoy !

Long before Peak B-grades, there was John Gill's B1- B3 system.

"In 1958 I devised the first American bouldering rating system .... I envisioned three categories of technical difficulty: B1 would denote the highest level of difficulty in traditional roped-climbing, B2 would be a broad category of more difficult or "bouldering level" problems, and B3 would be an objective category signifying climbs that were unrepeated, though attempted. When a B3 was repeated it would drop to a B2 or perhaps even a B1 level. As time went by, B1 would correspond to higher levels of traditional climbing difficulty, and the system would shift accordingly. "
http://www128.pair.com/r3d4k7/HomePage2.html

Maybe this new thing is some kind of homage to Gill? (Or maybe it is just elitist wank.)


petejh

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Elitist wanker  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
All about him, him, him and his bouldering, reducing the entirety of 'roped climbing' to just 'B1'.

tomtom

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Long before Peak B-grades, there was John Gill's B1- B3 system.

"In 1958 I devised the first American bouldering rating system .... I envisioned three categories of technical difficulty: B1 would denote the highest level of difficulty in traditional roped-climbing, B2 would be a broad category of more difficult or "bouldering level" problems, and B3 would be an objective category signifying climbs that were unrepeated, though attempted. When a B3 was repeated it would drop to a B2 or perhaps even a B1 level. As time went by, B1 would correspond to higher levels of traditional climbing difficulty, and the system would shift accordingly. "
http://www128.pair.com/r3d4k7/HomePage2.html

Maybe this new thing is some kind of homage to Gill? (Or maybe it is just elitist wank.)

So this is a clever idea. The difficulty grade is inversely proportional to the number of sucessful repeats.




Clearly il Pirata is the hardest problem in the world.

Order is returned. All Hail...

(I know thats not il pirata - its the first G pic I could find..)

petejh

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I always believed I was the world's greatest mixed climber and you've just confirmed it.

tomtom

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I always believed I was the world's greatest mixed climber and you've just confirmed it.

Excellent! I believe its the perfect system!

petejh

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But have more people not repeated Ill Piratta or Burden of Dreams? I haven't done either, so it's hard to say from my non-repeats.

habrich

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Elitist wanker  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
All about him, him, him and his bouldering, reducing the entirety of 'roped climbing' to just 'B1'.

In case it wasn't clear, the reference to "elitist wank" was aimed at the Mellow-ennials not Gill!

spidermonkey09

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Every time the people involved in this Mellow thing say or do anything it's fucking stupid. Being good at filming/climbing/promoting things doesn't make them Mensa candidates. That blurb of their instagram channel made me wince. :sick:

petejh

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Elitist wanker  ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::) ::)
All about him, him, him and his bouldering, reducing the entirety of 'roped climbing' to just 'B1'.

In case it wasn't clear, the reference to "elitist wank" was aimed at the Mellow-ennials not Gill!

No worries I think that was clear. I was just not so subtly making the point that it's very easy to view people as elitist wankers or <insert whatever other label here>. One pre-requisite for wankerdom is suggesting something that isn't the status quo.

teestub

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You really choose some odd hills to die on Pete  :lol:

cheque

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That John Gill scale is only slightly more advanced than the classic “There’s only two grades, ones you can do and ones you can’t”.  :lol:

Grading systems just seem like currencies to me- all measuring the same essential but crude thing, all pretty much as arbitrary as each other and changing between one regional system and another is a right faff.

Like currencies, having loads just seems like a hangover from when the world was a bigger, much less connected place. I thought that when US sport wads started using French grades a few years ago it was a step in the right direction but this B-grade Bitcoin rammel is definitely two steps back.
« Last Edit: October 08, 2019, 11:18:45 pm by cheque »

andy popp

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Word. B grades and beer towels. 90s bouldering represent!

Steve Rhodes and Allen Williams Guides ahoy !

Long before Peak B-grades, there was John Gill's B1- B3 system.

"In 1958 I devised the first American bouldering rating system .... I envisioned three categories of technical difficulty: B1 would denote the highest level of difficulty in traditional roped-climbing, B2 would be a broad category of more difficult or "bouldering level" problems, and B3 would be an objective category signifying climbs that were unrepeated, though attempted. When a B3 was repeated it would drop to a B2 or perhaps even a B1 level. As time went by, B1 would correspond to higher levels of traditional climbing difficulty, and the system would shift accordingly. "
http://www128.pair.com/r3d4k7/HomePage2.html

Maybe this new thing is some kind of homage to Gill? (Or maybe it is just elitist wank.)

This made me realise I'd never fully understood the Gill system, in particular that B1 equalled the hardest roped climbing. With the whole system anchored that way the whole thing actually makes quite a bit of sense. I'd always taken B1 as being things Gill could do pretty easily.

BID

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It's immensely stupid. I climb up to about 6B+ and I care about the difference between font 3, font 5 and font 6A.

It's an elitist idea with no advantages.

If I go out into the peak with 1 mat, I may get onto a grim looking highball font 4, I wouldn't get onto a grim looking highball font 5+. If I gained a stone, those numbers would drop by 0.5 probably.

People care about lower grades.

 

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