[user deactivated]

What would Ben Moon do?

Talk about Hubble? (Sorry Ben 🙄)

[shark]

Only because everyone asks him about it

[Doylo]

What would Ben Moon do?

Talk about Hubble? (Sorry Ben 🙄)

You’re always slagging off Hubble. Stop Hating on the Geez

[tomtom]

Chris says hi!

[SA Chris]

Hi

[user deactivated]

What would Ben Moon do?

Talk about Hubble? (Sorry Ben 🙄)

You’re always slagging off Hubble. Stop Hating on the Geez

Sorry Doylo & everybody, no more Hubble based humour I promise 

[duncan]

Climb more or train more? Different people have success with both routes of course.

This is all some way above my pay scale but old men like shark and I - with our trad. background and minimal basic strength training in our teens and twenties - are always going to be playing catch-up in finger strength. Our tactics, movement skills and so on are not too bad and pretty well engrained: only very small gains to be had there. So from a purely physiological perspective I bet T_B is correct and I’m guessing the anonymous coach is probably correct too. It never is purely about physiology though is it?

Oh and the only honourable activity to transition to from climbing is fell-running. What Would Ron Do?

[tomtom]

Get a bike. :D

[turnipturned]

Climb more or train more? Different people have success with both routes of course.

Shark, out of interest, when was the last time you climbed an 8th grade sport route?

 

[Will Hunt]

Climb more or train more? Different people have success with both routes of course.

Shark, out of interest, when was the last time you climbed an 8th grade sport route?

20102
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/showlog.php?id=9478&sort=g&country=0&crag=0&gradetype=3&partner=0&year=0&season=0&nresults=25&pg=1

Edited to get rid of fake news.

[nai]

There's an 8a in 2012

[turnipturned]

Right......

Shark you need to be smarter. Utilise this 'rock time' building a relevant seasonal base. I would suggest 15-20 7c's and a few 8a's before you even consider getting back on the Oak. From what I can gather, all this 'rock climbing' has just led to consistent failure, which is a really bad place to be and hard to mentally break out of. Lots of tickings, lots of confidence, lots of experience= good mental state.

I would then supplement your rock days with some short and effective training sessions, like 45min FB.

From experience, driving two hours to a crag to fail in a similar place or not make progress, isn't demonstrating determination, hard work, perseverance, its demonstrating pure and utter arrogance. Its easy to go through the motions, I did it for a season, I was arrogant and thought I could get lucky.

If you are absolutely serious about doing the oak, you need to listen to people and 100% change your approach.

I wish you well and good luck.

[user deactivated]

Hang on a minute Dan, that’s what I said with a bit of ‘tough love’ added.

[abarro81]

I think the difference between what Dan said and what you said is that Simon seems to mostly enjoy sieging something hard - so your "go and do what you want" strategy would not result in Simon fulfilling Dan's plan.

For what it's worth, I would tend to agree with Dan, though I would advocate spending a lot of that time bouldering, or at the least on very short routes... but I agree that it's good to be used to success, and that only sieiging things is a route to stagnation unless you're very careful or lucky or doing lots of training around your outdoor climbing.

Were I in Simon's position I think I'd do something (very roughly) like this

Sat - outdoors* or indoor boulder** (possibly following a hangs warm up?)

Sun - Brief max hangs followed by outdoors*. Alternatively maybe outdoors* followed by indoor an cap

Tues - outdoors* or indoor boulder** + possibly some an cap or conditioning stuff?

Thurs - Training day. am: Anderson hangs + weights/conditioning. pm: bit of aero cap (not loads)

* no more than 4 sessions on a boulder allowed per season maybe?
** on novel territory where possible e.g. school boards, works board etc.

That's still a load of outdoor climbing. On weeks where it rains maybe change one of the bouldering sessions to 1-arm max hang work - so most weeks in the winter you'll get at least 2 hangs sessions in + 2 boulder sessions

[shark]

Were I in Simon's position I think I'd do something (very roughly) like this

Sat - outdoors* or indoor boulder** (possibly following a hangs warm up?)

Sun - Brief max hangs followed by outdoors*. Alternatively maybe outdoors* followed by indoor an cap

Tues - outdoors* or indoor boulder** + possibly some an cap or conditioning stuff?

Thurs - Training day. am: Anderson hangs + weights/conditioning. pm: bit of aero cap (not loads)

* no more than 4 sessions on a boulder allowed per season maybe?
** on novel territory where possible e.g. school boards, works board etc.

That's still a load of outdoor climbing. On weeks where it rains maybe change one of the bouldering sessions to 1-arm max hang work - so most weeks in the winter you'll get at least 2 hangs sessions in + 2 boulder sessions

Tweaking it a bit would this pass muster?

Sun - Training day. am: FB warm up A few goes on two hard Oak moves on board Anderson hangs + weights/conditioning. pm: bit of aero cap (not loads)

Tues – Tor working/redpointing a short route on right side*** Followed by sections of Bens Roof. 

Weds - Brief max hangs followed by bouldering at Anston or Grit * Alternatively maybe outdoors* followed by indoor an cap

Fri - Tor working/redpointing a short route on right side*** Followed by stamina  laps on Sardine / Tin Of.  Max Hangs to finish or indoor boulder** + possibly some an cap or conditioning stuff?

* no more than 4 sessions on a boulder allowed per season
** on novel territory where possible e.g. school boards, works board etc.
*** no more than 6 sessions on a route allowed per season

[Will Hunt]

Were I in Simon's position I think I'd do something (very roughly) like this

Sat - outdoors* or indoor boulder** (possibly following a hangs warm up?)

Sun - Brief max hangs followed by outdoors*. Alternatively maybe outdoors* followed by indoor an cap

Tues - outdoors* or indoor boulder** + possibly some an cap or conditioning stuff?

Thurs - Training day. am: Anderson hangs + weights/conditioning. pm: bit of aero cap (not loads)

* no more than 4 sessions on a boulder allowed per season maybe?
** on novel territory where possible e.g. school boards, works board etc.

That's still a load of outdoor climbing. On weeks where it rains maybe change one of the bouldering sessions to 1-arm max hang work - so most weeks in the winter you'll get at least 2 hangs sessions in + 2 boulder sessions

Tweaking it a bit would this pass muster?

Sun - Training day. am: FB warm up A few goes on two hard Oak moves on board Anderson hangs + weights/conditioning. pm: bit of aero cap (not loads)

Tues – Tor working/redpointing a short route on right side Followed by sections of Bens Roof. 

Weds - Brief max hangs followed by bouldering at Anston or Grit * Alternatively maybe outdoors* followed by indoor an cap

Fri - Tor working/redpointing a short route on right side Followed by stamina  laps on Sardine / Tin Of.  Max Hangs to finish or indoor boulder** + possibly some an cap or conditioning stuff?

* no more than 4 sessions on a boulder or 6 sessions on a route allowed per season maybe?
** on novel territory where possible e.g. school boards, works board etc.

When you train and do "Oak moves" on a board, Simon, do you train with other climbers who are operating at Oak standard or above? I find that if you climb on your own on a board you could easily fall into a trap of thinking you were reasonably strong. It's only when you see other people climbing on them that you realise how weak you actually are. You should arrange to come and try Austrian Mock on the Leeds Depot 50 board. Similarly, if you actually go out and put some mileage into some 7c+ - 8a climbs then you'll get a feel for how good you actually are (and it'll be fun). If all you have to benchmark yourself against is years of not getting up the Oak you don't really have a meaningful perspective on your own performance.

[shark]

Shark, out of interest, when was the last time you climbed an 8th grade sport route?

20102
https://www.ukclimbing.com/logbook/showlog.php?id=9478&sort=g&country=0&crag=0&gradetype=3&partner=0&year=0&season=0&nresults=25&pg=1

Edited to get rid of fake news.

That makes it sound like I've gone backward for the last 6 years which I dont believe to be the case. Apart from getting super close on the Oak in 2015 I would like honorary sport routes eatswood Traverse 7B+(sport 8a) and eatswood Reverse 7B+/C(sport 8a/+) done in 2013 and 2016 to be taken into consideration. I have also got close on Bens Roof this year which would qualify as 8a+. I have also improved my bouldering grade in the time on up problems on grit with West Side Story in 2014 and Jericho Road (done 3x) on limestone in 2017.   

[shark]

When you train and do "Oak moves" on a board, Simon, do you train with other climbers who are operating at Oak standard or above? I find that if you climb on your own on a board you could easily fall into a trap of thinking you were reasonably strong. It's only when you see other people climbing on them that you realise how weak you actually are. You should arrange to come and try Austrian Mock on the Leeds Depot 50 board. Similarly, if you actually go out and put some mileage into some 7c+ - 8a climbs then you'll get a feel for how good you actually are (and it'll be fun). If all you have to benchmark yourself against is years of not getting up the Oak you don't really have a meaningful perspective on your own performance.

I would never fall into the trap of thinking I'm reasonably strong. The two moves replicate the two hardest moves on the bottom section of the Oak albeit they are a notch harder than the real thing. I really don't need someone else to prove this given the amount of time I've been on the route. Re Austrian Mock I thought it was established that its resemblance to the Oak moves was minimal. Re having a reasonable benchmark I have been on enough sport trips in recent years years to know that with a bit of prep I can bang out up to 7c onsight on longer routes abroad. As for home turf the only routes left for me at the Cornice were ones that Id tried and written off in the past as not being my style so was pleased to get Jug Jockey 7c+ and also got close on Roof Warrior 8a.

[tim palmer]

Have you done Caviar Simon?  Quite similar in style and a shade easier

[Fiend]

(and it'll be fun).

Christ, don't get too carried away turning poor Shark's modus operandi completely upside down. Gentle tweaks and nudges...

[shark]

Have you done Caviar Simon?  Quite similar in style and a shade easier

Is it? Not even tried it or considered it as I assumed it would shut me down. I imagine its less sustained but the individual moves are significantly harder and more fingery than the Oak.  Doing the 7B start as a boulder problem would be a good staging post before putting a rope on? Takes a while to dry.   

[tomtom]

Doesn’t stay wet as long as many people think - and since the work on the hydro plant below the weir the ground has been dry for much longer too. I’ve worked it in Nov and Feb.

The start isn’t fingery (a little) more shoulders and ALOT of core (for me anyway). It’s deceptivley overhanging.

[shark]

Doesn’t stay wet as long as many people think - and since the work on the hydro plant below the weir the ground has been dry for much longer too. I’ve worked it in Nov and Feb.

The start isn’t fingery (a little) more shoulders and ALOT of core (for me anyway). It’s deceptivley overhanging.

Good knowledge

[Stu Littlefair]

Does anyone else ever feel for Shark? The poor guy has had more unsolicited advice than every other climber put together.

[T_B]

Does anyone else ever feel for Shark? The poor guy has had more unsolicited advice than every other climber put together.

I feel sorry for those giving the advice!