[Will Hunt]

Shark doesn't want to tick The Oak. It's all a ruse to make money.

Shark owns UKB. Posts = advertising revenue. 99% of posts on UKB are about SharkSiege. Failure = profit.

I'm not even convinced Shark isn't a bot that's using machine learning algorithms to turn climbing training blogs on the internet into an endless stream of posts about The Oak.

[tim palmer]

Yeah I think it is reasonably similar, gently overhanging technical limestone climbing, much closer than the cornice anyway

[tomtom]

Yeah I think it is reasonably similar, gently overhanging technical limestone climbing, much closer than the cornice anyway

(And nice climbing - up to the jug/pocket anyway )

[abarro81]

Looks ok, thoughts:
- I think Anderson hangs are a session in own right, I wouldn't stack bouldering with it.
- go on bens roof if it u must but its probably not training any more
- less focus on tor, more on novelty! Go outside your comfort zone
- you'll run out of rhs tor routes fast. Wild in me... then what? 6 sessions to to get something done is ok but 6 sessions on something and getting nowhere is a waste (see Dan post)
- I doubt doing sardine and tin of does anything for you, what's it training? Given you fall off them sometimes (Iirc) it's probably not aero cap. Go outside your comfort zone!!
- In the nicest way possible, caviar is likely to be a siege. You want to be doing dozens of hardish new routes and boulders each season, more if getting out that much. Look at Mason's scorecard on 8a and see how many problems he does... success breeds success like Dan says.. This may require an ego hit though

[nai]

- you'll run out of rhs tor routes fast. Wild in me... then what?

I thought Little Boots, Out of My Boots and Ring of Fire would be decent candidates.  Especially Ring of Fire, low crux then pumpy traversing finish is a bit Oaky?

[Doylo]

Does anyone else ever feel for Shark? The poor guy has had more unsolicited advice than every other climber put together.

Gives people something to do at work.

[shark]

- you'll run out of rhs tor routes fast. Wild in me... then what?

I thought Little Boots, Out of My Boots and Ring of Fire would be decent candidates.  Especially Ring of Fire, low crux then pumpy traversing finish is a bit Oaky?

Sorry want being clear. I was thinking In Brine, Obsecene Gesture and Call of Nature as options too.

[SA Chris]

Does anyone else ever feel for Shark? The poor guy has had more unsolicited advice than every other climber put together.

In the same way I sympathise with Sisyphus; purely at an existential level.

[user deactivated]

Does anyone else ever feel for Shark? The poor guy has had more unsolicited advice than every other climber put together.

In the same way I sympathise with Sisyphus; purely at an existential level.

Sisyphus? You can get antibiotics for that these days Chris

[SA Chris]

Antibiotics, the ideal gift for the man who has everything.

[shark]

Re "Anderson hangs" Ive been reading up about it in their book (Rock Climbers Training Manual p120) and there's something I cant make sense of.

They describe a "baseline" which is the amount of resistance which results in failure at the end of the sixth rep of the second set but then prescribe for each of the exercises of the intermediate routine of "baseline + 10lbs" for the second set of 6 hangs which is a logical impossibility to complete the set unless of course  the +10lbs resistance actually means weight off ?     

[abarro81]

Normal format:
Grip 1
- 7 hangs @ baseline
- rest (I use 3 min)
- 6 hangs @ baseline + 5kg
- rest (I use 3 min)
- 5 hangs  @ baseline + 10kg

-- rest (I use 5 min)

Grip 2
[as above - baseline is obvs different as its a different grip/hold]

etc.....

I do a session where I just do the 6 hangs and 5 hangs instead (based on something "J star" said he did) on each grip.

If you complete all hangs on a set then add 2kg to baseline for that grip next time

[shark]

Hi Alex - I’m still confused. My point is how can you do 6 hangs on the second set at baseline+10lbs (or 5lbs) if baseline is defined as just completing a 6th hang on the second set?

[nai]

I could never do it either, I could only manage an extra 2kg on the 6 rep set. I just do the 6 rep set now at around 85% of the lattice max hang test score.

[shark]

How can you complete it even at an extra 2kg unless you operate at over 100% ?

I am obviously misunderstanding something but I don’t know what yet..

[reeve]

I've not got the book in front of me, but having recently re-read that part I think there's a misprint. My interpretation is that baseline should be defined as what you can hang for 7 reps, then you add extra weight as you reduce the number of reps in subsequent sets. Otherwise there's no way you could complete the first set, or add in subsequent sets - as you said Simon.

[shark]

Thanks Andy - that makes sense

[Stu Littlefair]

It’s like watching a bunch of clever people be intentionally obtuse.

Set the baseline so that you just fail at the last hang of the second set. For clarity this sometimes means that baseline involves some assistance.

Eg

Set 1. 7 hangs @ baseline. Complete ok

Set 2. 6 hangs @ baseline +10lbs
Fail (just) in hang 6

Set 3. 5 hangs @ baseline +20lbs
Really hard.

If you complete set 2 easily then increase the baseline weight. Simples.


Although this is what the Anderson Bros recommend I tweak it slightly and set baseline so I fail on set 3. This makes my hangs less intense, but I do a lot (7 grips).  Works for me.

Others do less (I.e only two sets) so their session is less volume but more intense.

Given your goal of a short PE route id be tempted to start with the routine as described in the book.

For what it’s worth Shark I think this is the way forward for you. One session of this a week every week

[abarro81]

As per stu's post, I set baseline so I just complete the final set or just fail on it.

Once a week every week is my current fave for this too.

I recommend under cooking the weights to start and gradually ramping.. when I start a cycle I deliberately do this 

[shark]

It’s like watching a bunch of clever people be intentionally obtuse.

My confusion arose because the book says:

*Note: "Baseline" is not bodyweight. It is whatever amount of resistance results in failure at the end of sixth rep of the second set.

As Reeve says this must be a typo and should read "..the seventh rep of the second set" given that the second set has weight added to baseline for the intermediate and advanced routines

Set the baseline so that you just fail at the last hang of the second set. For clarity this sometimes means that baseline involves some assistance.

Eg

Set 1. 7 hangs @ baseline. Complete ok

Set 2. 6 hangs @ baseline +10lbs
Fail (just) in hang 6

Set 3. 5 hangs @ baseline +20lbs
Really hard.

If you complete set 2 easily then increase the baseline weight. Simples.

Thanks for clarifying

Although this is what the Anderson Bros recommend I tweak it slightly and set baseline so I fail on set 3. This makes my hangs less intense, but I do a lot (7 grips).  Works for me.

Others do less (I.e only two sets) so their session is less volume but more intense.

Given your goal of a short PE route id be tempted to start with the routine as described in the book.

There are 3 routines described in the book which have 9 grips (Beginner), 8 grips (Intermediate) and 7 grips (Advanced) respectively. The beginner routine has one set for each grip, the intermediate two sets for each grip and the advanced three sets. I'm not sure whether to try the intermediate or advanced. The text suggests I should try the advanced. 

For what it’s worth Shark I think this is the way forward for you. One session of this a week every week

Cool. That's what I was thinking in addition to one or two short max hangs sessions during the week (6 x 12-15 sec strict half crimp with 3 mins rest between hangs)

[Duma]

...short max hangs sessions during the week (6 x 12-15 sec strict half crimp with 3 mins rest between hangs)

Isn't this (12-15s) long for max hangs?

[nai]

Sounds like it would be better to desribe the set 2 score as baseline and set 1 as baseline -10lbs

[shark]

...short max hangs sessions during the week (6 x 12-15 sec strict half crimp with 3 mins rest between hangs)

Isn't this (12-15s) long for max hangs?

Dave Mason recommends 12 secs in his video and in conversation suggested up to 15secs and intuitively I agree. My flexors are used to shorter and intermittent hangs from 35 years of climbing and over the last few years I’ve done a fair bit of 8-10sec max hangs so longer time under tension I figure is a more novel stimulus to evoke a response. In fact I’m tempted to experiment with longer.

[petejh]

I'm not surprised to see you thinking about ways to turn strength training into endurance training.

[shark]

I'm not surprised to see you thinking about ways to turn strength training into endurance training.

Busted