[36chambers]

Size of hold interests me for this - as given the tip of my fingers (where bone comes to press on flesh and onto hold) is only about 10mm across (depth) then the difference between hanging a 15 to 10 to 6mm edge is about pain endurance and maybe building up some tougher cartridge around the tip... I guess what I’m saying is that the mechanics of the bones, muscles and tendons means you’re not actually having to pull anything any harder with much smaller holds - it just hurts your tips more.

Imagine your finger tips are sky hooks - putting them on a 2, 5, or 10mm edge doesn’t actually alter how much force is being pulled through the hook (your hands/fingers). That’s probably a really crap analogy :D

Well that’s my musings about it...

Sorry if I've misunderstood, but if you're grip position is anything like the classic weight-force-seesaw diagram, the further the weight from the pivot the greater the force. So a smaller edge would require more pull.

[Will Hunt]

Can we counteract this boring fingerboard chat with either another Shark tantrum or somebody curling out some sewer serpents under Careless Torque? Cheers.

 

[Steve R]

I think he's saying the area that's loaded when 1/2 crimped, ie. the area that would leave a fingerprint after a hang is ~10mm deep. therefore any edge size that goes from just able to accommodate fingerprint depth (~10mm) up to still inside first joint and therefore necessitates same grip type (~15mm) should, in theory, be the same.  In practice, I guess the grip type changes a little between these two extremes (eg. crimp angle drops a little on biggger edge giving a bigger 'fingerprint'?)  which is why a ~15mm edge will empirically be easier than a ~10 mm edge.

[Steve R]

actually, having re-read what Tom wrote, he is saying all the above (I think) but also that as edge size becomes < fingerprint depth the principle stands and you should still be able to put the same force through the smaller edge as you could a 10 or 15mm edge (but for pain, etc.).  This bit I disagree with.   Exactly how max force decays with smaller edge size beyond this proposed 'sub fingerprint depth inflection point' is probably best investigated practically but i doubt it's linear.  (it would be linear if it was as simple as force,lever, pivot type system.)

[tomtom]

Yes ish Steve. Imagine your finger tip is a screwdriver end/tip and it’s being pointed slightly down into the hold (as per a good 1/2 crimp) then if you have a splodge of cartilage under the tip of the screwdriver then there is no difference between a 5mm hold and a 20mm hold (in terms of force down on the tip) except the cartilage is deformed more or less etc (representing pain ) but the force acting on the screwdriver tip (your bones tendons and muscles) are the same on all holds.

As long as your fingers chisel to the back of th me hold of course. And you’re right - larger holds give you more freedom to juggle your finger position so you are using all 4 uneven length screwdrivers to full effect

Sorry Will. No copracious tales from me. However check out ratemypoo.com

[Bradders]

Maybe the perfect combination is a 2000 and a campus rung, although as Bradders has demonstrated sticking with the bottom outside on the 2000 should get results!

I do somewhat regret my arrogance in buying the 2000 over the 1000. The latter seems like the far more versatile board.

[Steve R]

ah ok, well explained.  Don't you think though if you remove the flesh and cartilage and then do the same hang just on the now exposed bone, the 'boneprint' where force was applied on the edge would still look closer to a fingerprint than a discrete, screwdriver tip-like point?

[Murph]

Tom I think your deformation is more truer for a four finger open hang. There the difference between small and very small comes down to how well your fingertip skin deforms/friction/conditions and so on.

Really need to get the micros up in the dojo and set aside a development weekend to test strength benchmarks on all the holds.

Oh, and, back on topic, go Shark!

[cheque]

Really need to get the micros up in the dojo and set aside a development weekend to test strength benchmarks on all the holds.

You really don’t. 

[abarro81]

IIRC someone did a study on this, and strength on big holds transferred down to about 5mm, beyond which pulp density became a key factor. I.e. TT is right below 5mm but wrong above it.. given that 5mm is tiny, we can assume that strength is strength and all other excuses are just that unless you're on an 8B crimp fest

[spidermonkey09]

I do somewhat regret my arrogance in buying the 2000 over the 1000. The latter seems like the far more versatile board.

Fortunately the climbers ego is such that a post on ukc offering a swap will likely get results should you feel that way inclined. Its how I ended up with my 2000!

[Nibile]

Really need to get the micros up in the dojo and set aside a development weekend to test strength benchmarks on all the holds.

I think a weekend will be barely enough to start tolerating the pain...
I put back up some 5 mm edges in the garage mainly to feel again that early '90s vibe, but I rarely use them, if not for tests.