[a dense loner]

Better than the old we can get out of this because a team of politicians told us lies. No shit Sherlock every vote in history we will have been lied to or dealt extreme hyperbole. It should be about moving forward now after more people wanted to leave than stay.

Anyway I hope you're enjoying the bbq, I'm sure I'm being slagged off as much as Doylo, monkey boy and Mawson were slagging me off last night for voting leave  seems you can do what you want as long as it's what your peers want you to do

#motherfuckers

[fried]

If only there was a EU referendum on  name dropping

[petejh]

Chris says hi. (Doyle that is)

[Oldmanmatt]

This is very worrying. First the whole Dense conspiracy and now George is missing...

http://newsthump.com/2016/06/25/concerned-nation-joins-hunt-for-missing-george-osborne/


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[tomtom]

Gideon has form for going missing for a few days.

[Jaspersharpe]

Better than the old we can get out of this because a team of politicians told us lies. No shit Sherlock every vote in history we will have been lied to or dealt extreme hyperbole. It should be about moving forward now after more people wanted to leave than stay.

Anyway I hope you're enjoying the bbq, I'm sure I'm being slagged off as much as Doylo, monkey boy and Mawson were slagging me off last night for voting leave  seems you can do what you want as long as it's what your peers want you to do [emoji14]

#motherfuckers

You weren't mentioned mate. Not interested in slagging people off.

Just facts and what's really going to happen. Unlike everything the Leave campaign said.

[Fultonius]

What Jasper said...

There's loads of stuff going on today that suggests that this is far from over [...]    What a mess.

Indeed. Looks form page 19 section 70 of the official advice that Scotland and Northern Ireland  may effectively hold vetos.

Interesting, I wonder if it would be instigated. If it was,  then there would no longer be "material change" and no second Scottish referendum, so I doubt they'll exercise it.

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[Doylo]

I was only winding you up too  (should have voted remain though).

[Johnny Brown]

Labour now imploding. The biggest result of this is going to be total disaffection with politics. Westminster just ate itself.

[tomtom]

Labour now imploding. The biggest result of this is going to be total disaffection with politics. Westminster just ate itself.

Which probably needed to happen in some shape or form... I wonder if a lot of this boils down to our first past the post system - which meant that parties like UKIP had one mp on 4 million votes nationally. Don't get me wrong, I'd like UKIP to disappear - but those voters have (up til the referendum) had no voice in parliament..

[shark]

Labour now imploding. The biggest result of this is going to be total disaffection with politics. Westminster just ate itself.

More the other way round. The result was a consequence of disaffection of politics in the wider sense of where we are and where we sit in the world. The majority of the ruling class have been demonstrated to be out of touch with the electorate. Time for upheaval.

[Johnny Brown]

Remember how Corbyn got to be leader? I think the Tory party is about to get a lot of new members... Only a fiver to get another vote on leaving...

[tregiffian]

I know I`m on my own but it would be interesting to know if HM Queen actually did get a 90th birthday present that she really wanted.

[tomtom]

Remember how Corbyn got to be leader? I think the Tory party is about to get a lot of new members... Only a fiver to get another vote on leaving...

Is that right? Interesting!!

[Oldmanmatt]

Quote from the Indy yesterday:

If Boris Johnson looked downbeat yesterday, that is because he realises that he has lost.

Perhaps many Brexiters do not realise it yet, but they have actually lost, and it is all down to one man: David Cameron.

With one fell swoop yesterday at 9:15 am, Cameron effectively annulled the referendum result, and simultaneously destroyed the political careers of Boris Johnson, Michael Gove and leading Brexiters who cost him so much anguish, not to mention his premiership.

How?

Throughout the campaign, Cameron had repeatedly said that a vote for leave would lead to triggering Article 50 straight away. Whether implicitly or explicitly, the image was clear: he would be giving that notice under Article 50 the morning after a vote to leave. Whether that was scaremongering or not is a bit moot now but, in the midst of the sentimental nautical references of his speech yesterday, he quietly abandoned that position and handed the responsibility over to his successor.

And as the day wore on, the enormity of that step started to sink in: the markets, Sterling, Scotland, the Irish border, the Gibraltar border, the frontier at Calais, the need to continue compliance with all EU regulations for a free market, re-issuing passports, Brits abroad, EU citizens in Britain, the mountain of legislation to be torn up and rewritten ... the list grew and grew.

The referendum result is not binding. It is advisory. Parliament is not bound to commit itself in that same direction.

The Conservative party election that Cameron triggered will now have one question looming over it: will you, if elected as party leader, trigger the notice under Article 50?

Who will want to have the responsibility of all those ramifications and consequences on his/her head and shoulders?

Boris Johnson knew this yesterday, when he emerged subdued from his home and was even more subdued at the press conference. He has been out-manoeuvred and check-mated.

If he runs for leadership of the party, and then fails to follow through on triggering Article 50, then he is finished. If he does not run and effectively abandons the field, then he is finished. If he runs, wins and pulls the UK out of the EU, then it will all be over - Scotland will break away, there will be upheaval in Ireland, a recession ... broken trade agreements. Then he is also finished. Boris Johnson knows all of this. When he acts like the dumb blond it is just that: an act.

The Brexit leaders now have a result that they cannot use. For them, leadership of the Tory party has become a poison chalice.

When Boris Johnson said there was no need to trigger Article 50 straight away, what he really meant to say was "never". When Michael Gove went on and on about "informal negotiations" ... why? why not the formal ones straight away? ... he also meant not triggering the formal departure. They both know what a formal demarche would mean: an irreversible step that neither of them is prepared to take.

All that remains is for someone to have the guts to stand up and say that Brexit is unachievable in reality without an enormous amount of pain and destruction, that cannot be borne. And David Cameron has put the onus of making that statement on the heads of the people who led the Brexit campaign.


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[Oldmanmatt]

Unless I misheard, I just watch Sturgeon threaten to veto the referendum.

Nicola Sturgeon says MSPs at Holyrood could veto Brexit
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-36633244


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[Jaspersharpe]

http://www.snappytv.com/tc/2241758/1125475

[Oldmanmatt]

http://www.snappytv.com/tc/2241758/1125475

Well, fuck me bendy and twice on Tuesday.

Now I feel so much better...


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[JR]

Remember how Corbyn got to be leader? I think the Tory party is about to get a lot of new members... Only a fiver to get another vote on leaving...

As I said on Facebook, this isn't possible under Tory party constitution.  But I did blog about it more generally:

https://johnroberts.me/business/2016/06/8-reasons-positive-about-eu-referendum-result/

[jfdm]

The post Exit future looks rosy.
In her speech today, Priti Patel said: “If we could just halve the burdens of the EU social and employment legislation we could deliver a £4.3 billion boost to our economy and 60,000 new jobs.” The TUC does not accept her claim on jobs and the economic boost of reducing these EU-derived rules, but notes her overtly hostile agenda towards workers’ rights.
- The TUC commissioned an independent legal opinion from Michael Ford QC on the consequences of Brexit for UK employment law and workers’ rights. A full copy can be found at www.tuc.org.uk/sites/default/files/Brexit%20Legal%20Opinion.pdf
- Michael Ford QC’s legal opinion suggests that, based on past history and extant policy documents, the workers’ rights most vulnerable to repeal are:
Collective consultation, including the right for workers’ representatives to be consulted if major changes are planned that will change people’s jobs or result in redundancies (as have been used in recent major announcements in the steel industry).
Working time rules, including limits on working hours and rules on the amount of holiday pay a workers is entitled to.
EU-derived health and safety regulations.
Transfer of Undertakings (TUPE), i.e. the EU-derived protections to the terms and conditions of workers at an organisation or service that is transferred or outsourced to a new employer.
Protections for agency workers and other ‘atypical’ workers, such as part-time workers.
Current levels of compensation for discrimination of all kinds, including equal pay awards and age discrimination.

[jfdm]

The reason behind The Labour implosion today, quite likely...

Craig Murray
Former Ambassador, Human Rights Activist
It’s Still the Iraq War, Stupid.

No rational person could blame Jeremy Corbyn for Brexit. So why are the Blairites moving against Corbyn now, with such precipitate haste?

The answer is the Chilcot Report. It is only a fortnight away, and though its form will be concealed by thick layers of establishment whitewash, the basic contours of Blair’s lies will still be visible beneath. Corbyn had deferred to Blairite pressure not to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for the Iraq War until Chilcot is published.

For the Labour Right, the moment when Corbyn as Labour leader stands up in parliament and condemns Blair over Iraq, is going to be as traumatic as it was for the hardliners of the Soviet Communist Party when Khruschev denounced the crimes of Stalin. It would also destroy Blair’s carefully planned post-Chilcot PR strategy. It is essential to the Blairites that when Chilcot is debated in parliament in two weeks time, Jeremy Corbyn is not in place as Labour leader to speak in the debate. The Blairite plan is therefore for the parliamentary party to depose him as parliamentary leader and get speaker John Bercow to acknowledge someone else in that fictional position in time for the Chilcot debate, with Corbyn remaining leader in the country but with no parliamentary status.

Yes, they are that nuts.

If the fault line for the Tories is Europe, for Labour it is the Middle East. Those opposing Corbyn are defined by their enthusiasm for bombing campaigns that kill Muslim children. And not only by the UK. Both of the first two to go, Hilary Benn and Heidi Alexander, are hardline supporters of Israel.

[Jaspersharpe]

Remember how Corbyn got to be leader? I think the Tory party is about to get a lot of new members... Only a fiver to get another vote on leaving...

As I said on Facebook, this isn't possible under Tory party constitution.  But I did blog about it more generally:

https://johnroberts.me/business/2016/06/8-reasons-positive-about-eu-referendum-result/

You've nailed it John. Exactly what I've been saying for the last two days. People need to realise that this is far from over.

[tomtom]

The reason behind The Labour implosion today, quite likely...

Craig Murray
Former Ambassador, Human Rights Activist
It’s Still the Iraq War, Stupid.

No rational person could blame Jeremy Corbyn for Brexit. So why are the Blairites moving against Corbyn now, with such precipitate haste?

The answer is the Chilcot Report. It is only a fortnight away, and though its form will be concealed by thick layers of establishment whitewash, the basic contours of Blair’s lies will still be visible beneath. Corbyn had deferred to Blairite pressure not to apologise on behalf of the Labour Party for the Iraq War until Chilcot is published.

For the Labour Right, the moment when Corbyn as Labour leader stands up in parliament and condemns Blair over Iraq, is going to be as traumatic as it was for the hardliners of the Soviet Communist Party when Khruschev denounced the crimes of Stalin. It would also destroy Blair’s carefully planned post-Chilcot PR strategy. It is essential to the Blairites that when Chilcot is debated in parliament in two weeks time, Jeremy Corbyn is not in place as Labour leader to speak in the debate. The Blairite plan is therefore for the parliamentary party to depose him as parliamentary leader and get speaker John Bercow to acknowledge someone else in that fictional position in time for the Chilcot debate, with Corbyn remaining leader in the country but with no parliamentary status.

Yes, they are that nuts.

If the fault line for the Tories is Europe, for Labour it is the Middle East. Those opposing Corbyn are defined by their enthusiasm for bombing campaigns that kill Muslim children. And not only by the UK. Both of the first two to go, Hilary Benn and Heidi Alexander, are hardline supporters of Israel.

That sounds like tin foil hat stuff to me.

The reason the shadow cabinet are resigning en mass (and they're not Blairite - KARL Turner is a telling resignation) - is because Corbyn is (a) a bad leader and (b) unelectable as PM.

I'm totally fucking sick of Corbyns aggressive fan club saying every attack against him is by the Blairite agenda-ists.... I don't mind his views - agree with many of them. But he's proved himself an inept and rubbish leader. Fuck - he makes Ed Milliband look like Bill Clinton!

[Jaspersharpe]

Agree Tom.

[a dense loner]

Sounds like a wet fish to me