[cheque]

Is it this one?

[jwi]

yes, perfect!

[mrjonathanr]

Coach Sommers (he of Building the Gymnastic Body fame) references John Gill in interview with T nation about the merits of bodyweight exercises:
http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance_interviews/all_muscle_no_iron

[Will Hunt]

Had a brief session on the fingerboard and bar last night and am working on bent knee leg raises with a view to progressing to leg raises (yep, core really is that bad). Also identified another weakness in that I think most of my finger strength comes from front two. Will mix in some deadhanging on the middle two to try and work on this.
Can anyone critique this session plan for me? It may be complete nonsense and it may be too much. I gauging this on what last night's short session felt like.

5 mins pulse raising (jogging on spot/star jumps/up and down stairs/generally making our neighbour wonder what the hell I'm doing) + a few easy hangs and pull ups on the bar.
5 mins stretching shoulder and arms (not sure what stretches to use for the core?)
5 mins easy hangs and pull ups on the easy slopers

3 sets of 5 reps hanging, bent knee, leg raises (or whereever I am in progression)
3 sets repeaters on front three. Starting on big holds and getting smaller
3 sets of 8 reps (or 5x5) leg raises as above
Deadhangs on middle two (what do I do here? Hangs of 15 secs seemed the max last night, just do max hangs seperated by 1 min rest?)
3 sets of 5 reps leg raises as above

5 mins easy hangs and pull ups on slopers
5/10 mins stretching



Also called in at the work gym to sign up this morning. Related to the post below I've been told to do some pilates, so will do the class there. They've got an expensive pull up bar type effort which allows you to add weight. I'm short on time in the evening but can often take an hour in the morning before starting work to use this facility. Obviously there is no fingerboard. Can anybody recommend some exercises to replace the fingerboard stuff above to work on gross power? Is it as simple as doing a load of pull ups and experimenting with adding weight on?

For perhaps the last winter I've had a bit of a niggling in my left shoulder. Since turning to filthy sport climbing this spring, this has started to flare up and tonight I have had to pass up the wall as I've felt it giving me pangs while sat at work today.

Its basically a pain that runs down the rear of my neck (left side) and down into my shoulder blade to a point that feels quite central in my shoulder. This doesn't really hurt while climbing, but after getting on the sport I've certainly noticed it in the days after. Particularly pronounced when I turn my head to the right.  After a session at Malham on Sunday it wasn't great. Went for an 'enthusiastic' swim last night (mainly breast stroke) and today its been pretty poor.

Any idea what this might be and what I ought to do to make amends? Thanks in advance for any help you can give!

Hi it sounds like the problem is coming from your neck more so than the shoulder. The cervical spine will refer pain in to the shoulder, shoulder blade area, arm and even in to the hand and fingers.
The fact that breast stroke irritated it probably means that the neck isn't liking excessive or repetitive extension ie looking up. In the daytime take care that you are not slumping when you sit which tends to promote a forward head position. Often climbers become stiff in their mid back regions and this can affect neck and shoulder positions/movements. Basically try to do some stretches for this area and be more aware of your posture.
I would recommend you see a physio as you have had this since the winter.
Regards
Matt

After studiously not getting round to seeing a physio this has now come to a head. In the past month I've had two "episodes" where I've felt a sudden jolt of pain in the muscle in question (girlfriend tells me its the trapezius) which then makes head movment left, right, up, and down very painful for a number of days. On each occasion this has been set off when drying my hair after getting out of the shower! NSAIDs seemed to help and I've been back climbing on it fairly quickly.
Aside from the 'episodes' I also had a lot of trouble whilst on holiday - long stretches driving the camper van causing short-term discomfort.
I'm off to see the physio tonight so will report back with their verdict. I suspect it is a posture thing (as suggested elsewhere on this thread) that could well be exacerbated by carrying heavy pads up long walk ins, playing the violin etc.
Hopefully will be told I can still climb and train and get some exercises for strenghthening.

So, not after advice as such, just wanted to provide follow up for anyone searching for similar ailments.

Posture posture posture. Got to get some lumbar support to make me sit up straight and do some exercises.

[tomtom]

Don't start doing everything at once.. sounds like you're starting excercises for your back/posture, finger strength on the fingerboard, core work somewhere else and working overhanging boards... Bring em in gently.. not all at once...

[dunnyg]

Why are you only training middle 2? I personally would go with back 3, remember some knowledge (from the beasmaker peeps) saying splitting hands front 3 and back 3 is useful. Strong pinkies are over rated. I think its less easy to tweak stuff with more fingers involved. Back 3 feels strange though!

I think once warmed upproperly, its best to start on repeaters, starting on your weakest grip, so shittest hold, or back 3 or whatever you want to do. (again beastmaker knowledge?).


Personally I would separate finger stuff from core. If you are having a finger session, do that, then tag core on the end, or do core another day. Make sure long enough rest is had between sets too for your finger business.


 Don't over train, it's hard when you are an eager beaver, apparently, and make sure you are warm as fuck.

For reference, I'm just getting back into the fingerboarding, I did 5 sets of 7 on 3 off for 6 reps, then did some max hangs on the slopers. Felt like a reasonable start. I think next time I will be doing back 3 and front 3 and similar and see where it goes from there. Hope that helps....

[duncan]

Don't stretch muscles before you train for strength.

Take longer over the warm-up. Do more sub-maximal hanging: from a bar, from the jugs, smaller holds with feet on, smaller holds for a very short duration.

As others have said, don't mix fingerboarding with abdominal exercises/leg raises: the focus of the fingerboarding should be on your fingers (and elbow and shoulder positions). You could consider doing the leg-raises hanging from a bar as part of your fingerboard warm-up.

[finbarrr]

Don't stretch muscles before you train for strength.

Take longer over the warm-up. Do more sub-maximal hanging: from a bar, from the jugs, smaller holds with feet on, smaller holds for a very short duration.

As others have said, don't mix fingerboarding with abdominal exercises/leg raises: the focus of the fingerboarding should be on your fingers (and elbow and shoulder positions). You could consider doing the leg-raises hanging from a bar as part of your fingerboard warm-up.

yeah, what he said.
i usually do lots of hangs, progressing from a few half-pull-ups (starting with bent elbows and not going all the way up) on jugs, via off-set-pull-ups to the smaller holds.
just walking around the room, shaking out, shadowboxing, doing a few push ups.

i think you can skip the jogging on the spot.
you could do some of those ball-excercizes during your warm up

[nathanie1]

To make leg-raises hanging from a bar more interesting, I have pieces of paper hanging from the ceiling in various, reachable, places and with each raise I slowly touch a different piece with a different foot. It makes for a more interesting set.

Alternatively, try and convince someone to stand on a chair and place their hand in various places for you to try and reach during each raise. 

[mctrials23]

JWI, I have just started to do that program on the exercise ball and the side bridge is ridiculously hard. I just can't get the balance on it. Any tips or ideas?

[jfdm]

JWI, I have just started to do that program on the exercise ball and the side bridge is ridiculously hard. I just can't get the balance on it. Any tips or ideas?

Same here, maybe steady for fraction of second, then flew off the ball!
Will try again next week.
Maybe work on side bridge without the ball? That's what I'm thinking?

[tomtom]

feet on ball or arm on ball?

[lagerstarfish]

let a bit of air out of the ball

[nathanie1]

JWI, I have just started to do that program on the exercise ball and the side bridge is ridiculously hard. I just can't get the balance on it. Any tips or ideas?

you could either put the ball against a wall/sofa, with your body perpendicular to said wall to add stability. Or part your legs with one foot forward and the other back. It shouldn't be long till your body is tuned into the wobbliness and you can beast it otherwise. 

[jwi]

JWI, I have just started to do that program on the exercise ball and the side bridge is ridiculously hard. I just can't get the balance on it. Any tips or ideas?

Your balance on the ball will improve rapidly. Its easier if you spread the legs a bit. Even easier if you keep your free hand on the ball. I had no big problems on that exercise (more problems on others). My better half could never do them properly last year. We just started up again, and this year she can do them just fine.

[jfdm]

Train safely this year!
If in doubt, less is more!
There's always next time!




 

[Gallant]

JWI, I have just started to do that program on the exercise ball and the side bridge is ridiculously hard. I just can't get the balance on it. Any tips or ideas?

I thought it was pretty difficult the first time I tried this, then realised if you place your elbow joint roughly near the middle, and palm down flat on the ball, you're somehow a fair old bit more stable? Maybe mind games, maybe helpful beta?

[Will Hunt]

Thought I'd share the core exercise session that the chap at work's gym helpfuly planned for me. Have done this twice now and it certainly gets the muscles in the core area working. Please feel free to critique this as I'm conscious that some of the exercises will not necessarily be climbing specific. Are there any that could be missed out/extended.

Back Squats - 3x15 - have pull up bar on shoudlers with small amount of weight (5kg or so)
Press ups - 3x10
Leg raises - 3x6
Toes to bar (not doing this yet. Waiting to progress up to it)
Knee raises - 3x10
Plank - 1min x 2
Side plank - 30 secs each side x 2
Iron Cross - 2/3 x 10 - not on the rings! Lie back on floor, arms out in crucifix position, legs up straight and slowly pendulum them left and right. Basically like a windscreen wiper but easier.
Mountain Climber Crossovers - 2x12 - Hold a press up position and try and touch your elbow with your opposite knee.
Hollow rocks - max hold x 2 - Basically lie on your back, lift your feet off the floor with straight legs and same with your arms to make a shallow dish shape in cross section.
Feet slides - 3x10? - Basically like a squat thrust but with a sheet of paper under your toes so your feet slide along the ground.

[mctrials23]

That looks fine but I think you will end up quite quickly exhausting the usefulness of that routine. Are you doing them with very little rest and only getting tired towards the end?

None of the individual exercises are particularly strenuous so I don't know how much stronger it will get you ultimately but if you can't do toes to bar yet then this could be a good way to move towards that baseline.

I'm sure there are some people on here much better placed to advise on this but core is pretty much all I will be doing for the next 2-3 weeks after buggering my A2 a week or so ago.

The exercise ball routine pdf seems quite good so far if you have one to use.

Front lever progressions on a bar are always a good place to start as well. That should hit the back and core too.

[Sasquatch]

Thought I'd share the core exercise session that the chap at work's gym helpfuly planned for me. Have done this twice now and it certainly gets the muscles in the core area working. Please feel free to critique this as I'm conscious that some of the exercises will not necessarily be climbing specific. Are there any that could be missed out/extended.

Back Squats - 3x15 - have pull up bar on shoudlers with small amount of weight (5kg or so)
Press ups - 3x10
Leg raises - 3x6
Toes to bar (not doing this yet. Waiting to progress up to it)
Knee raises - 3x10
Plank - 1min x 2
Side plank - 30 secs each side x 2
Iron Cross - 2/3 x 10 - not on the rings! Lie back on floor, arms out in crucifix position, legs up straight and slowly pendulum them left and right. Basically like a windscreen wiper but easier.
Mountain Climber Crossovers - 2x12 - Hold a press up position and try and touch your elbow with your opposite knee.
Hollow rocks - max hold x 2 - Basically lie on your back, lift your feet off the floor with straight legs and same with your arms to make a shallow dish shape in cross section.
Feet slides - 3x10? - Basically like a squat thrust but with a sheet of paper under your toes so your feet slide along the ground.

Sounds like a fairly standard gym view of core conditioning. Are you looking to strengthen or condition?
 
You're doing 25 sets of exercises so this is going be be really sub maximal, so by default you are doing more conditioning vs. strength.  This isn't a bad thing, and is likely a good way to start.  Do this for about 2 weeks (5-6 times in total), then move on to more strength based work. 

For pure core strength with access to weights, I'd say look at doing:
Front Squats - Abs, Low Back, Hamstrings, Glutes
Deadlifts - Low Back, Hamstrings, Glutes
1/2 moons (medicine ball, kettleball, or dumbell) - Abs, Obliques, Shoulders
GHD's - Upper and lower hamstrings
Ankles to Bar - Abs, lower lats
Front Levers - lower lats, low back, abs, shoulders
Dragon Flags - everything (at least it feels like that for me )

If you have access to rings, then ring planks are also excellent, with progressions into one arm ring plank.
Bird dogs (go into plank, then lift and point left arm forward while also lift and pointing with right leg back, and on opposite side) on the ring are nails.

Spend 3-4 sessions learning good basic form, then move to 3x5 or 5x3 of each at near max. 

[Will Hunt]

Stupid question: when you say maximal I assume you mean making gains in strength and when you say conditioning I guess you mean making gains in stamina/endurance?

I suppose some additional strength is necessary, but I would have thought my primary interest is conditioning. Providing my legs don't suddenly become really heavy then there is only so much effort that is required to get them up and on a high set of holds (I'm thinking gritstone roof climbing here) but conditioning would help keep them in play longer without feeling burnt out in the core. I'm sure having the core strength to pull front levers is fun but is it particularly climbing specific (I suspect that is a laughable question. All the beasts can do em)?

I've done that exercise routine twice now and it certainly doesn't make me sweat but I do struggle to finish some of the sets. Particularly leg raises on the second and third sets and the iron cross things. I'm doing it at a fairly relaxed pace, taking a rest of maybe a minute between sets and a couple of minutes between exercises, no idea if this is too much!

I guess your exercises there are more climbing specific, Sasquatch?

[mindfull]

You could try to see all over 1000 "strengthcamp" videos of Elliot Hulse about his 4 layers of strength and try to adapt them to climbing. I'm using them currently for powerlifting/strength training, and even running, but some principles have helped me also with climbing. I'm currently only climbing once or twice a week but applying some of his methodology actually let me climb at a higher standard while my training regime for climbing is minimal. Just an idea ...

[Sasquatch]

Stupid question: when you say maximal I assume you mean making gains in strength and when you say conditioning I guess you mean making gains in stamina/endurance?

Generally speaking - yes

I suppose some additional strength is necessary, but I would have thought my primary interest is conditioning. Providing my legs don't suddenly become really heavy then there is only so much effort that is required to get them up and on a high set of holds (I'm thinking gritstone roof climbing here) but conditioning would help keep them in play longer without feeling burnt out in the core. I'm sure having the core strength to pull front levers is fun but is it particularly climbing specific (I suspect that is a laughable question. All the beasts can do em)?

Are you climbing on a grit roof for more than 2-3 minutes?  If not, then you're probably much better off focusing on strength.  If you'd like we can get into the specifics, but increasing your maximal strength will naturally increase your submaximal endurance up to a point (hence why I ask about the time). 

Also, you mention the leg raises as being challenging and not doing ankles to bar yet, which tells me you seriously lack some aspect of core strength directly related to climbing(as you've mentioned).  And I don't think doing a bunch of side plank and plank is going to get you there. 

I guess your exercises there are more climbing specific, Sasquatch?

A little bit, but not really.  If you want more climbing specific, then check out some of Nib's videos for his climbing specific core work. 

What they are is targeted towards strength. 

I also forgot to mention how many exercises I'd do in a workout.  If/when I do targeted strength training (which I'll start a 4-week cycle in about 2 weeks), I'll do something like:

WU
Climbing WO
Strength WO:
3x3 Deadlift or GHD - Main goal is posterior Chain from Knee to mid back
3x4 Wtd Dips or Dumbell Flys - main goal is pecs and triceps for deep lockoffs and compression
3x5 One Leg Wtd Squats (full range of motion) or 3x5 Max height Box Jumps - Goals are explosive power in the legs and stability while pressing from a rockover position.
3x5 Dragon Flags or Ring Bird Dogs(hold for 2-5 seconds) - Abdominal and low back strength and core stability
3x8 Kneeling 1/2 Moons or Russian Twists - Obliques and Abdominals
3x12 Shoulder strengthening - researching this now to determine where I want to take this....

[chris j]

If you have access to kettlebells, one exercise you might want to consider that I find good for 'core' and for shoulder stabilizers is the Turkish Get-Up. All the rage on power club a year or two back IIRC.

[mrjonathanr]

+1 for this exercise.

Done with a fairly heavy dumbell this feels excellent for shoulder stability. Seems good for everything else too as while 1 rep feels ok by 6 I'm having to dig deep.