[Johnny Brown]

For example, I don't really know how a repeat of Captain Invincible or Equilibrium compares to Recovery Drink (Nico Favresse' route in Greenland I think... I recall hearing 8c+/9a trad?) and where they sit on the 'trad' scale.

They don't really, apples and oranges. Nico's efforts on granite can be compared to Tom R and Pete's exploits though: If you read Tom's blog he has a go: http://tomrandallclimbing.wordpress.com/2014/06/30/the-pura-pura-project/

Favresse and them have done some similar stuff like Greenspit but he has also done 9a and big walls, whereas they've basically repeated all the supposed hardest cracks in the world. Be interesting to see how they get on on El Cap.

You can't really have a sensible discussion about Indian Face. It is like catnip to UKC and nearly thirty years old, not twenty. Interesting how hard Meltdown turned out to be though, shame Johnny never did it.

Likewise I don't think it's worth trying to compare grit routes with elsewhere. It's worth noting Equilibrium stopped the yanks and Andrada dead, but Pearson did it quickly. And Nico put on a good show in Wales but left the gritstone with his pants round his ankles.

Until Echo wall is repeated we probably won't know what the hardest trad climb in the world is. And Caff will probably downgrade it anyway...

[jwi]

Recovery drink is in Norway on Profilveggen. I asked Mr Favresse about the route, and he claimed it was really very hard for him, it took two trips and lots of attempts

[Pantontino]

Interesting discussion for sure, but can people stop saying 'sports climbing', it makes me twitch almost as much as when I read that people are going climbing in the 'Peaks', or that they 'smashed' a route (what? - broke the holds off?).

Sport climbing (with no second 's' will do just fine).

[bendavison]

Exactly! Although Flatanger certainly lends itself to more interesting sports vids than a lot of venues.  Imagine the article you'll be able to write about your ascent of Little Badder next year, you should make a Rocky style montage of your recovery!

That could be brilliant. Not sure how good my Rocky impression is though, but I could pretend that the training 'secret' is punching big pieces of meat and running up stairs.

Thanks for the replies Muenchener and JB. It does sound like there are British climbers who have climbed trad at the highest level of their niche (this isn't meant to sound belittling, I'm aware different styles/areas of sport climbing are niche - I avoid pockets like the plague and love edges/pinches but its all sport).

I suspect that in a few years UK sport climbing will be doing pretty well in the pecking order too - not at the top, but a handful of 9a-9a+ climbers and hopefully Steve will have done his Malham project which sounds like 9b. Its logical that having more people climbing at that level, so presumably more news reports about them, that the youths will raise their expectations if they're not already aiming for 9c.

[jwi]

Oh, and by the way, I heard similar grumblings from French acquaintances. (Why are we crap at climbing? The reason most frequently heard it that the best french climbers are lazy and don't train enough.)

[Doylo]

Enzo Oddo seems to have gone a bit quiet.

[petejh]

Except the French stats don't back up the French grumblings - they're just that, grumblings.
Whereas the Brit stats, if anyone could be bothered to trawl through below 9a+ (and remove boulder travs/myths) somewhat back up the Brit grumblings.

[gme]

Whilst they have a lot of 9a climbers I can see why they might feel they are behind as they only have 4 9a+ climbers (if you dont count Akira as 9b).

Like has been said a few times i dont think the world outside of the UK sees 9a as that hard any more.

Based purely on difficulty (redpoint and onsight,)and not quantity they are behind the Czechs, Germans, spanish, norwegians, americans.

[Stubbs]

Based purely on difficulty (redpoint and onsight,)and not quantity they are behind the Czechs, Germans, spanish, norwegians, americans.

i.e. Ondra, Megos, Ramon (?), Midtbo and the almighty Shamra (who is basically Spanish now)?

It's not as if the countries you've listed have masses of 9b climbers or 9a onsighters!

Didn't Ondra say that Overshadow could be 9b? THat way you'd be able to add the UK to that list too!

[gme]

I only said that i can see why they might think they are under performing due to not having a top climber or someone climbing the top two grades.

[jwi]

Yeah, the top-level is shockingly high: 8c+ or 9a onsight, 9a flash, or 9b or 9b+ redpoint. Below that are the also-rans.

[abarro81]

I'm late to most of this since, topically, I'm in Spain trying to redpoint a hard (for me) route. I'be not read everything but just wanted to back Stu up in his assessment that conditions are not the limiting factor in his the UK, and, IMO, choice of routes is a far bigger deal, as Doyle mentioned on about page 1. If I could move the route I'm trying to the tor or malham - complete with their conditions and seepage - I'm convinced that it would make it easier for me than having to go on a trip, where conditions are an equally big risk (e.g. its been 25 degrees since I've got here and looks set to stay like that). The big difference is that round here you can pick crimps, pockets or pinches, vert or thug, and short medium and long in all of those styles, often with a few to xhoose even adter that, whereas in the uk its short crimps or medium crimps or rainshadow.

[a dense loner]

Knee pad must be constricting in that heat   

[Fiend]

If I could move the route I'm trying to the tor or malham - complete with their conditions and seepage - I'm convinced that it would make it easier for me than having to go on a trip, where conditions are an equally big risk (e.g. its been 25 degrees since I've got here and looks set to stay like that).

Conversely, if you lived in Spain, I doubt you would be really wanting to go on your trips to Malham to get the most reliable conditions 

[Wood FT]

I'm late to most of this since, topically, I'm in Spain trying to redpoint a hard (for me) route. I'be not read everything but just wanted to back Stu up in his assessment that conditions are not the limiting factor in his the UK, and, IMO, choice of routes is a far bigger deal, as Doyle mentioned on about page 1. If I could move the route I'm trying to the tor or malham - complete with their conditions and seepage - I'm convinced that it would make it easier for me than having to go on a trip, where conditions are an equally big risk (e.g. its been 25 degrees since I've got here and looks set to stay like that). The big difference is that round here you can pick crimps, pockets or pinches, vert or thug, and short medium and long in all of those styles, often with a few to xhoose even adter that, whereas in the uk its short crimps or medium crimps or rainshadow.

good luck barrows, keep on truckin'

[Paul B]

I'm late to most of this since, topically, I'm in Spain trying to redpoint a hard (for me) route. I'be not read everything but just wanted to back Stu up in his assessment that conditions are not the limiting factor in his the UK, and, IMO, choice of routes is a far bigger deal, as Doyle mentioned on about page 1. If I could move the route I'm trying to the tor or malham - complete with their conditions and seepage - I'm convinced that it would make it easier for me than having to go on a trip, where conditions are an equally big risk (e.g. its been 25 degrees since I've got here and looks set to stay like that). The big difference is that round here you can pick crimps, pockets or pinches, vert or thug, and short medium and long in all of those styles, often with a few to xhoose even adter that, whereas in the uk its short crimps or medium crimps or rainshadow.

You only cite this as a disadvantage because you're not Spanish, if you were this wouldn't be a problem. "Where the sun don't shine the Euro's don't climb" - are the Spanish people having trouble in the sun? My experience is people in hotter climates tend to deal better with the heat than a pasty Brit tourist.

I heard somewhere an amount of time (that I can no longer remember) that it takes your body to adapt to such climatic changes. It was vast when compared to the length of time most people (even you Barrows) would spend on a redpointing trip.

I will at some point (probably long after the debate has finished), get around to writing my full considered reply. Probably when my manager is in a meeting I'd imagine.

[Sloper]

Can we have a picture of a cat now?

[tim palmer]

i couldn't disagree more with most of what gme has posted but…..

http://www.ukclimbing.com/news/item.php?id=69236

Newsworthy?

[Jaspersharpe]

Amazing.

[JohnM]

Not newsworthy in terms of difficulty (i.e. if they had done Urgent Action for example it probably wouldn't have been reported) but it is a story of interest.  From a personal perspective it is good to hear about these ascents as they are not done often so now I know they are relatively clean and the gear is ok on them.  The other aspect I find with the British climbing media is that it tends to have it's favourite "media darlings" who tend to always be in the news whether the ascents are newsworthy or not. 

[Oldmanmatt]

Not newsworthy in terms of difficulty (i.e. if they had done Urgent Action for example it probably wouldn't have been reported) but it is a story of interest.  From a personal perspective it is good to hear about these ascents as they are not done often so now I know they are relatively clean and the gear is ok on them.  The other aspect I find with the British climbing media is that it tends to have it's favourite "media darlings" who tend to always be in the news whether the ascents are newsworthy or not.

Not sure if Ben is a media darling?

Though I should have given him the job when he applied last year...

[Wood FT]

  Wild looking route! it would be cool if they had a look at Bob's route Endeavour while they were down there

[tim palmer]

Not newsworthy in terms of difficulty (i.e. if they had done Urgent Action for example it probably wouldn't have been reported) but it is a story of interest.  From a personal perspective it is good to hear about these ascents as they are not done often so now I know they are relatively clean and the gear is ok on them.  The other aspect I find with the British climbing media is that it tends to have it's favourite "media darlings" who tend to always be in the news whether the ascents are newsworthy or not. 

Yeah totally, I don't give two hoots if british climbers are "world class", I just thought it was a nice example of what gme thinks is route cause of the lack of 9a climbers in the UK, but I reiterate I totally disagree with him. 

Wild looking route! it would be cool if they had a look at Bob's route Endeavour while they were down there

I can't imagine a better example of what gme was talking about…. see above

[Wood FT]

Sorry Tim could you explain that one

[tim palmer]

gme (on page 1 i.e. the topic of the thread) says that over reporting of ascents of mid - grade sport routes as "news" is one cause of the lack of 9a and above climbers in the uk.  I was just providing an example, I thought maybe the dead horse had not been sufficiently flogged