[kc]

So following on from a previous thread about bolts on Peak Limestone where there was a general feeling that the need to bring the areas bolts up to modern standards was no longer necessary and most annoyingly the weird persons would be risking litigation.
If anybody is interested here is a list of some of the routes that need attention. No doubt there are many more.
You only need to ask and all the kit will be provided.

Raven tor
Remove and relocate a shockingly badly placed bolt on a route right of indecent.
There is a dodgy bolt or two around Mecca extension/Kaaba junction.
Top section of Tin of + move lower off above break.
Obscene\ toilet lower off needs replacing.
The replacement of all the bolts and lower off on Call of Nature is not of immediate concern but they are made of substandard materials so will need doing sooner or later.
The only worthwhile route right of here to do is Mortal Combat.
There are a few old bolts/studs to remove on Hot Flushing’s and Hooligan.

Rubicon
There is a lot of tiding up to do here and there is a case for placing/replacing discreet lower offs on some of the trad routes. Apparently they are quite good and having top roped them all I would consider the damage caused by cleaning the top outs unjustifiable.  Gardening the top outs would need to be done regularly with the added danger of falling debris onto a busy footpath.
New discreet Belay points for the following routes are worth considering.
Jezebel, jaws, Piranha, White Bait, Millers Tail
The collection of routes that finish up Dragon Flight currently rely on a single bolt.
As for sport routes there is Too Old/Bold, Last but not least, Bastard and the rubbish to the right of Rubicon roof.

Moat Buttress
Two Sheep to Leicester and Searching For the Yeti. That is if the latter is still possible.

Crunch Buttress
Mission impossible
Karma Killer belay
Agent Provocateur
Perfecto
Trainer Tamer

WCJ Cornice
The dole
Ape index
Yorkshire 8b mix of rubbish
The weakling (some)
Brachiation Dance
Free Monster (better lower off arrangement)
Superfly
Eclipsed
Glue machine
Sirius
Atilla the Hun

Dale cornice

There are 7 routes to do left of Taylor Made namely the power trip routes, but rarely come into condition.
Nemesis couple of bolts
Malcolm X
A few on roof warrior and cry of despair
Poppy Fields lose bolt in odd position
Armistice Day bolts all in wrong place
Big zipper and bored bolts are a bit random and as it is so popular could really do with the full resin treatment. Clarion too?
42
Butterflies
Think that’s it here??

Nook

All sorts??

Nettle Buttress

Not too familiar with this but Stung is particully bad.

Two-Tier Buttress

Dodgy lower off on reboot
Stogumber Club
Why Me
Orange Sunshine
Start of Minos and bolt out left on Aberration
Buster
Lightweight
7 pounds

Long Wall

First bolt on Kiss hardy now out of reach. The joint lower offs above this are quite poor
Moldwarp wall
Balancing act/trick show have lost their belay.
Breathless.

Embankment

Don't know but there will be something here.

Beginner’s wall
Let’s get Physical and a load of old bolts to chop.

[SamT]

Hi Kris

I was at Rubicon last week armed with drill, BP bolts and resin. I was going to do Too Old and the lower off on Dragon Flight.  However, conditions were too good and I ran out of time    .

I will be back shortly to do them.  If I can get a supply of BP bolts from BMC, I will do more.

[kc]

Excellent! Whatever and whenever you need it you can come and get it.
As you know glue is a perishable item and will need topping up soon. Apparently the PBF is very low so extra donations will be needed to buy glue for all the bolts we got.

[danm]

Nice work on the list Kristian.

The BMC have got a decent drill and set of kit for bolting which I can keep at my gaff in Sheffield. I'm happy to loan this out for short periods if this helps get stuff done.

[groovedog]

I'm keen to help out. Can I come and shadow someone when they are next bolting? I've placed rawbolts but never glue-ins. Would be happy to lend a hand and learn the way and point me at some suitable reading material, data sheets specs etc.

[kc]

I don't know when anyone will be out next bolting, but for all the info look no further than this
http://www.bolt-products.com/Glue-inBoltDesign.htm

and
https://www.thebmc.co.uk/anchor-report-published-by-technical-committee

[cowboyhat]

Peak Bolt Fund donation link?

[slackline]

Peak Bolt Fund donation link?

Fill your boots

[SamT]

'Too old to be bold' now has 3 new resin BP bolts.  Need to strip the old gear and replace the belay.

Will get round to do doing the Dragonflight belay and the bolt on Jezebel too. ..and Tribes... and and and....

[dave]

Good effort. Does TOTBB still have that runout to the belay at the top?

[SamT]

Yes it does and i was thinking that you could deck out if a hold broke as you were clipping the belay.  (Not entirely unfeasible).
I've been debating with myself whether to
a: stick an extra bolt in
b: move the lower off to the break as per dangerous brothers.
c: leave as is.

I was leaning towards c.  It adds a little frisson to the vdiff finish.

Thoughts?

[Dolly]

Its rubbish climbing up a wide crack isnt it ? IIRC
My view would be to put the lower off at the break - that's where the climbing really ends.

[Jaspersharpe]

Its rubbish climbing up a wide crack isnt it ? IIRC
My view would be to put the lower off at the break - that's where the climbing really ends.

I agree.

[Paul B]

Its rubbish climbing up a wide crack isnt it ? IIRC
My view would be to put the lower off at the break - that's where the climbing really ends.

My view would be to leave it as is. Maybe it's slightly alarmist to post the following:

Accept bolts, and more will appear nearby. Give me an example where this hasn't happened - I have had enough private conversations with pro-bolters to know that what they would like to see is american-style 'trad-lite' with bolted belays and lower-offs, and scary-but-safe tamed runouts. They won't admit to that on here, but it's already happened on most of our limestone, and is creeping on to grit through the quarries.

and it  may be scrappy, it may be crappy but we ARE in the UK. Does every point of difference in every sport route in the UK have to be removed/tamed? Run-out routes at Malham, high first bolts at Kilnsey, War Memorial etc. etc.

[205Chris]

Its rubbish climbing up a wide crack isnt it ? IIRC
My view would be to put the lower off at the break - that's where the climbing really ends.

My view would be to leave it as is. Maybe it's slightly alarmist to post the following:

Accept bolts, and more will appear nearby. Give me an example where this hasn't happened - I have had enough private conversations with pro-bolters to know that what they would like to see is american-style 'trad-lite' with bolted belays and lower-offs, and scary-but-safe tamed runouts. They won't admit to that on here, but it's already happened on most of our limestone, and is creeping on to grit through the quarries.

and it  may be scrappy, it may be crappy but we ARE in the UK. Does every point of difference in every sport route in the UK have to be removed/tamed? Run-out routes at Malham, high first bolts at Kilnsey, War Memorial etc. etc.

I agree with the gist of what you're saying but I think the problem in this case is that the route is so short it falls into the "hit the ground if you fall off" territory. It might be easy climbing but it's crap quality rock.

[Bonjoy]

My view would be to leave it as is. Maybe it's slightly alarmist to post the following:

Accept bolts, and more will appear nearby. Give me an example where this hasn't happened - I have had enough private conversations with pro-bolters to know that what they would like to see is american-style 'trad-lite' with bolted belays and lower-offs, and scary-but-safe tamed runouts. They won't admit to that on here, but it's already happened on most of our limestone, and is creeping on to grit through the quarries.

Whoever said that either has a very narrow view of who is a pro bolter or hasn't met very many. I've bolted routes and been involved in a bolt fund and this is far from my position. Doubt it's your's either.

[Paul B]

 

not entirely (I came over a little too UKC), but this is:

My view would be to leave it as is...

and it  may be scrappy, it may be crappy but we ARE in the UK. Does every point of difference in every sport route in the UK have to be removed/tamed? Run-out routes at Malham, high first bolts at Kilnsey, War Memorial etc. etc.

[SamT]

As stated earlier. . I was leaning towards "leave it as it is" anyway. . So thats what I'll do.

[Bonjoy]

 

not entirely (I came over a little too UKC), but this is:

My view would be to leave it as is...

and it  may be scrappy, it may be crappy but we ARE in the UK. Does every point of difference in every sport route in the UK have to be removed/tamed? Run-out routes at Malham, high first bolts at Kilnsey, War Memorial etc. etc.

It really pissed me off when some cheesewhip put an extra bolt in the top of The Thumb/Urgent Action.

[dave]

I'd say either leave as is, or stick an extra bolt in. But I'm guessing the reason for the lack of a bolt there in the first place suggests the rock isn't good enough, or wasn't judged to be in the 1980s. Maybe today with a deep glue-in it would be fine.

[SamT]

The rock is fine. .. I reckon its far more likely that an eighties dole cheque would only stretch to 3 hangers not 4.

[slackline]

I'd say either leave as is, or stick an extra bolt in.

I hear theres a spare one at Millstone.

[kc]

Too Old to be Bold E5 6b 1987.
 Mark would not wast time or money trying to protect VS ground especially if it could be easily clipped from the E4 Coot just right.
I used to try and maintain the feel of routes and respect the style of the FA within reason, however people have still gone an added extra kit to routes like Sardine and Body Machine.

Anyway well done Sam, at least someone is getting their hands dirty.
If you need any kit or an angle grinder you know where I am.

[Johnny Brown]

Accept bolts, and more will appear nearby. Give me an example where this hasn't happened - I have had enough private conversations with pro-bolters to know that what they would like to see is american-style 'trad-lite' with bolted belays and lower-offs, and scary-but-safe tamed runouts. They won't admit to that on here, but it's already happened on most of our limestone, and is creeping on to grit through the quarries.

Whoever said that either has a very narrow view of who is a pro bolter or hasn't met very many. I've bolted routes and been involved in a bolt fund and this is far from my position. Doubt it's your's either.

My quote, taken rather out of context - from the thread about the lower-off at Millstone. 'Pro-bolter', meaning those who would place such a thing. Koscis, who proposed the lower-off, writes lower in the thread about how nice it would be to have lower-offs on mountain crags.

[Paul B]

Apologies, I typed words to that effect but deleted them, instead replacing them with a