[mrjonathanr]

 

[Nibile]

In the oven with honey right now.

[Nibile]

Flapjack = good.
Honey = good.
Good + good = good.
 

[kelvin]

Flapjack is a main staple when I'm climbing, walking etc but if you can be arsed, then homemade ones are so much nicer, no matter how bad a 'cook' you are. Peanuts, chocolate, berries - the choice is yours. I've stayed away from making them as the temptation to make too many and eat them all would often be too much and rather self-defeating.

I did a 69 mile ultra last year. Forget the gels, all I wanted was white bread jam sandwiches... I normally hate them but that's all my body wanted. Took flapjack and almost vomited when I tried to eat it, yet I'd done nearly all my training on the stuff.

[webbo]

In my humble opinion which is based on 40 years of endurance sports. It's all about the training, if you have not done enough or done it right. Nothing you eat or drink will change that. If you batter yourself in to the ground training then no recovery drink will help you wake up the next day as though you have had a rest day.                                                     I use a heart rate monitor which tells me how many calories I have used based on max heart rate,age, sex, weight. It will not be 100percent accurate but fairly close. According to it I will often burn 3 or 4000 cals while only consuming about a 1000. You just need to learn to burn fat.

[mark s]

blend oats in milk
sweet potatoes

cheap as fook 

[Muenchener]

I did a 69 mile ultra last year. Forget the gels, all I wanted was white bread jam sandwiches

A guy I used to know was the then (late 80s) holder of the Pennine Way record in somewhere around 3 days. He fuelled himself with corned beef and onion sandwiches.

[Nibile]

So, the flapjack is very tasty. I used honey and added some jam. But it's very crumbly, so that I basically need a spoon to eat it.
What went wrong?
Not enough baked?
Too much/too little honey?
Opinions?

[kelvin]

Over cooked? If you over bake them, that can dry them out too much and they just fall apart.

[Nibile]

Makes sense. Will try again.
Cheers.

[SEDur]

I haven't had a chance to watch this video yet, but this guy seems to know his stuff (got his Phd).

For anyone who wanted to know this stuff.

http://www.biolayne.com/nutrition/biolayne-video-log-18-carbohydrate-metabolism-what-intake-is-right-for-you/

[Paul B]

When i went on a wall i took cheese, salami and bagels. Seriously, that was way better than gels and flipping gatorade.

Its been 35'c! Cheese sweats just a little less than myself. And, no. You're thinking of Lunabars.

[TobyD]

When i went on a wall i took cheese, salami and bagels. Seriously, that was way better than gels and flipping gatorade.

Its been 35'c! Cheese sweats just a little less than myself. And, no. You're thinking of Lunabars.

ah yes. i did freerider in late october  chilly then! lunabars then.... well i liked them.

[wintermute]

So, the flapjack is very tasty. I used honey and added some jam. But it's very crumbly, so that I basically need a spoon to eat it.
What went wrong?
Not enough baked?
Too much/too little honey?
Opinions?

Size of oats can make a difference to crumbliness. Generally, the finer the oats the more integrity the flapjack has. Ideally use a mixture of fine (to bind it together) and whole (to give it better texture) oats.

[duncan]

webbo, thanks for this blast of common sense.

I can see how you could deplete glycogen by running or cycling to the point where you have to start metabolising fat. I’m sure Ueli Steck is training something similar for his big alpine days. How different is rock climbing? Harder to deplete (you are sitting around doing nothing for >50% of the time) or easier (the muscles involved are much smaller)?

Or to put it another way, how do I train for a hypothetical rock route that is 900m long and expected to take about 18 hours?

[Muenchener]

I can see how you could deplete glycogen by running or cycling to the point where you have to start metabolising fat.

Mark Twight talks extensively about this in Extreme Alpinism

[webbo]

webbo, thanks for this blast of common sense.

I can see how you could deplete glycogen by running or cycling to the point where you have to start metabolising fat. I’m sure Ueli Steck is training something similar for his big alpine days. How different is rock climbing? Harder to deplete (you are sitting around doing nothing for >50% of the time) or easier (the muscles involved are much smaller)?

Or to put it another way, how do I train for a hypothetical rock route that is 900m long and expected to take about 18 hours?

I guess you would try to have long, long days try to climb non stop doing routes harder than goal route. Also doing much shorter but much harder routes.
my bike training is short fast interval sessions during the week with a long ride at the weekend, which if shorter than my goal ride. I will try and go harder than I plan on the goal ride.
When I was racing and training on a regular basis, racing around 50 to 60 miles. I could go ride a 100 miles without to much trouble due riding at a slower pace so it wasn't taking much out of me. Didn't Ben Moon just go from a period of hard bouldering and  do some routes with no problem because the moves were easier and not troubling him.                                                           

[duncan]

Mark Twight talks extensively about this in Extreme Alpinism

Isn't he a snow-plodder though?

I confess to having never read it despite it being a classic of some sort. I shall rectify this immediately. I hope he doesn't insist on me listening to The Young Gods (ha!), swinging kettle balls or shooting hand-guns.

[SEDur]

webbo, thanks for this blast of common sense.

I can see how you could deplete glycogen by running or cycling to the point where you have to start metabolising fat. I’m sure Ueli Steck is training something similar for his big alpine days. How different is rock climbing? Harder to deplete (you are sitting around doing nothing for >50% of the time) or easier (the muscles involved are much smaller)?

Or to put it another way, how do I train for a hypothetical rock route that is 900m long and expected to take about 18 hours?

I guess you would try to have long, long days try to climb non stop doing routes harder than goal route. Also doing much shorter but much harder routes.
my bike training is short fast interval sessions during the week with a long ride at the weekend, which if shorter than my goal ride. I will try and go harder than I plan on the goal ride.
When I was racing and training on a regular basis, racing around 50 to 60 miles. I could go ride a 100 miles without to much trouble due riding at a slower pace so it wasn't taking much out of me. Didn't Ben Moon just go from a period of hard bouldering and  do some routes with no problem because the moves were easier and not troubling him.                                                         

I suppose it wouldn't go amiss to get a copy of race weight out of the local library, as i think this is the kind of topic it covers.