[Eddies]

I just read about this chaps recent redpoint of 'Pata Negra' 8c in Rodellar.

He details his training in his blog here: http://bendavison.wordpress.com/category/training/

Nothing revolutionary in terms of training methods but its definately worth a read through.

[Luke Owens]

I just read about this chaps recent redpoint of 'Pata Negra' 8c in Rodellar.

He details his training in his blog here: http://bendavison.wordpress.com/category/training/

Nothing revolutionary in terms of training methods but its definately worth a read through.

Very impressive, I read through his training blog earlier and i'm suprised at how "basic" his training is for someone who climbs such high grades.

Nothing to fancy just trying hard and to the point.

[gme]

It might not quite come over in his blog but Ben trains really hard, and puts 100% effort into every session. He comes from a reasonably high standard triathlon background so whilst not having climbed that long he  knows how to train.

However the training he does is pretty basic as, having only climbed for a few years, basic stuff is all that he needs to do. He is on a gap year at the minute and whilst he wanted to do something hardish, he has been more focused on mileage and learning to climb, which is where most people fall down these days.

I find all the structured, written down, technical training odd for people who are not operating at a high level (>8c .8A) when just doing loads of climbing will have more benefit. People where doing hard stuff of this grade years ago by just climbing and having climbed and trained with some of our top climbers for years i really cant remember seeing any of them being as strict and organised as some of the average 7a climbers these days.

Going to the wall with your SAS style weight vest on, diary in hand and stop watch round your neck because the top lads/lasses are doing it will not get you stronger if you neglect the fact that they have actually been out climbing all day and the funky core/ hanging/lock off stuff they are doing is purely supplementary.

[andy_e]

Absolutely, plus training is really boring. Just climb, it's loads more fun too.

[masonwoods101]

  although it does seen that the training is cool at the moment

[Stubbs]

I'd have to disagree GME: few people were climbing >8A or 8c years ago, and most of those that were could be said to be those with natural talent where climbing was enough for them to get better.  There was also the dole culture which allowed people to climb loads.  Nowadays your average 7A punter is using the knowledge gleaned from the standardisation of training for climbing to use their limited time effectively.  I guess a lot of climbers are now relativity cash rich and time poor so spending a bit of cash to get a plan off a coach which can lead to improvements can be seen as a good investment.

[scottygillery]

clearly the lad is quite good but he's not doing any deadlifting. That's going to start to hold him back sooner or later (i predict sooner). Then he's gonna wish he'd been deadlifting all along. 3 years is quick to climb 8c, but that's hell of a lot of deadlifting to catch up on.

[Wood FT]

I'd have to disagree GME: few people were climbing >8A or 8c years ago, and most of those that were could be said to be those with natural talent where climbing was enough for them to get better.  There was also the dole culture which allowed people to climb loads.  Nowadays your average 7A punter is using the knowledge gleaned from the standardisation of training for climbing to use their limited time effectively.  I guess a lot of climbers are now relativity cash rich and time poor so spending a bit of cash to get a plan off a coach which can lead to improvements can be seen as a good investment.

what he said

[gme]

Stubbs- i am afraid we will continue to disagree. If you are time poor/cash rich surely the little time you have would be miles better spent climbing. I am not denying that the other stuff will help but if you don't climb you wont improve at climbing. Plus a good few people did climb in the grades i am talking about, not just one or two super talented individuals and many others with little talent managed to do pretty hard things. We all did what we called training but 99% of the training was climbing.

Andi E- Ben trains, and trains a lot. I commented to him ages ago that i was amazed that he could drive himself to do circuits on the moon board at Alnwick (8ft x 12ft hot and sharp) over and over again without getting bored; he said that having spent the last 8 years swimming up and down a pool and sat on a turbo trainer there was not one single bit of climbing training that doesn't feel like a joy and pleasure to do.

[Stubbs]

gme - I'm not for one second saying that climbing doesn't have it's place in training, and I'm sure all the stopwatch and notepad brigade are doing a lot of that too (at least I hope so!) Rather that 'just going climbing' will not progress most people as fast as climbing+structured training.

As to the grades and the numbers of people, it really depends what year you are talking about I guess. I remember when there was a list of UK people who had climbed 8A on here in the early 00's and I don't think it got much past 50, these days I couldn't hazard a guess at the number - 400, 500?

[cjsheps]

I climbed with Ben a fair bit last summer in Ceuse, and I can affirm that he hasn't found any magic potion to get good quickly. However, what struck me was that he's probably the most methodical person I've ever met - he has a plan for most things he does, and is very pragmatic. Also, he seems driven as hell.

Just goes to show that most people know all they need to know in order to make this type of progress, but just need to apply themselves more and in a smarter fashion. The climbing/training debate seems irrelevant here (and will probably go on till the end of time anyway).

[slackline]

As to the grades and the numbers of people, it really depends what year you are talking about I guess. I remember when there was a list of UK people who had climbed 8A on here in the early 00's and I don't think it got much past 50, these days I couldn't hazard a guess at the number - 400, 500?

Participation has vastly increased too though, what do the numbers who have climbed 8A in the early 00's and today look like as a percentage of total participants?

[Durbs]

Just goes to show that most people know all they need to know in order to make this type of progress, but just need to apply themselves more and in a smarter fashion.

Word and 

Regardless of if you're climbing 5-6 days a week, or training 5-6 days a week. As long as you're actually doing one of these things with any regularity you'll get markedly better.

I on the otherhand, am currently struggling to get to the plastic more than once a week, and there's dust, not chalk, on my fingerboard.
Which probably explains why after 4+ years of regular climbing I'm still stuck on 6b.

[T_B]

Stubbs- i am afraid we will continue to disagree. If you are time poor/cash rich surely the little time you have would be miles better spent climbing. I am not denying that the other stuff will help but if you don't climb you wont improve at climbing. Plus a good few people did climb in the grades i am talking about, not just one or two super talented individuals and many others with little talent managed to do pretty hard things. We all did what we called training but 99% of the training was climbing.

Surely you mean a relative beginner who is new to climbing? If I "just climbed" in the amount of time I have thesedays (not very much), then I would be operating at a much lower level outside. It also depends on your definition of "time poor" - a lot of my climbing is in an hour at lunch, so getting outdoors wouldn't be practical anyway.

I suspect you're trying to make a more general point about folk training really scientifically when they haven't actually learnt to use their feet yet!

[Doylo]

I think there's a few more Brits climbing 8c/+ now than in Gavs day but not that many more! There's obviously a lot more people bouldering harder but that's natural as the numbers bouldering have increased considerably. 8c in 3 years in good by any standard I'd say. Climbing will always be more important than training but those who can fit training in around plenty of days out will get the biggest gains I think. I don't train much as I like to feel fresh on my rock days but I'm sure this holds me back.

[krymson]

clearly the lad is quite good but he's not doing any deadlifting. That's going to start to hold him back sooner or later (i predict sooner). Then he's gonna wish he'd been deadlifting all along. 3 years is quick to climb 8c, but that's hell of a lot of deadlifting to catch up on.

 

[Jaspersharpe]

We all did what we called training but 99% of the training was climbing.

I suspect you're trying to make a more general point about folk training really scientifically when they haven't actually learnt to use their feet yet!

Yeah I took this to be Gav's point and I agree.

Seeing sub 7B/pretty new to climbing boulderers doing structured training on the beastmaker/campus board (with notebook etc) when they have an entire bouldering wall to climb on seems insane to me.

Despite having quite a bit of actual climbing experience, after a layoff I still notice (massively) the difference between managing to get some strength back on the fingerboard and actually getting half decent at climbing anything..... by climbing stuff.

Having time to get out and climb actual rock is another story and not necessarily the point here.

[tomtom]

for my 0.02, I think the biggest difference between then and now is media. 25 years ago there were no training videos, no internet, no online beta. If you were lucky, some old fella with a rolly would grunt 'stick yer toe there yoof and pull ard..' Now you can find out how to do problems - learn crazy and different ways of doing problems (that were crazy 25 yrs ago) - really easily. I think this makes learning how to climb hard things much much faster.

Getting back to training vs climbing... I'm having my best year ever - and as it says on my power club posts I've been outdoors 40+ times, and trained once or twice..

[Falling Down]

I'm going to blow Gav's trumpet for him here.  He took Ben under his wing three years ago and invested a lot of personal time to take him out climbing and "coached" him a lot.  He said to me at the time he's never met a more naturally talented climber with so much ability at a young age and that he would do some big numbers very quickly.  No doubt the years in Triathlon training and a sport obsessed family have made a massive difference.

Hats off to Ben and Gav.

TomTom, just seen your post.  Ironically, I think that's pretty much what Gav did but out at the crag and on the boards but it was more like  "I knacked me finger pulling too hard, just get some mileage in"

[tomtom]

yes - you reminded me FD - I was prattling on tangentically.. well done Ben! Great stuff!

[kelvin]

Always enjoy your Power Club stuff Tom, as you're always out and about in a way I can't be, living in Northampton is a killer for rock climbing during the week. I've been lucky myself this year in that, my mates have dragged me here there and everywhere and the club has a cottage in Capel Curig - I'm not getting much better grade wise but I am serving a proper apprenticeship on different rock and I'm certain that will pay of next year. Footwork seems to be everything and it's hard/impossible to learn that indoors IME.

I will say, I'm a sub 6b/fairly newish climber but I do do some work on the fingerboards and campus rails. That's down to a badly mashed right forearm tho that just doesn't hold onto strength and it's usually done after a session climbing. I find it massively beneficial and when I've tried just climbing, I've not made anything like the same gains.

Seems like that Ben dude has got it just about right and his work ethic is paying off. I was in the Alps last year and climbing with a couple of uberwads and all their advice consisted of was "try harder" and that seems to be his motto too.

[abarro81]

I think there's a few more Brits climbing 8c/+ now than in Gavs day but not that many more!

I have no idea how many there were back in the day, but I totted up the ascents I could think of at 8c and up by brits this year and came to 19 ascents by 11 climbers... In case anyone finds that interesting

[mrjonathanr]

I agree with Gav's main point- the fussing over precise training methodologies is to squeeze progress out of those who have already progressed a lot. I think it's hindering not helping more average/less experienced climbers who have more to gain just getting out and pulling hard -lots. Dave Mac says similar things I think.

The point about media is a no brainer. Role models. People try to emulate the heroes of the day - but often in a simplistic way.

[miso soup]

I have no idea how many there were back in the day, but I totted up the ascents I could think of at 8c and up by brits this year and came to 19 ascents by 11 climbers... In case anyone finds that interesting

I do find that interesting.  Anyone care to take a stab at number of people in the UK bouldering 8A and up?  Do people really consider 7B to be average punter level now?

[Doylo]

I think there's a few more Brits climbing 8c/+ now than in Gavs day but not that many more!

I have no idea how many there were back in the day, but I totted up the ascents I could think of at 8c and up by brits this year and came to 19 ascents by 11 climbers... In case anyone finds that interesting

By now I actually meant the last couple of years