[c.j.d.]

I may be wrong, so don't take this as gospel, but I think young greaser Jamie Cassidy has climbed Lou Ferrino into Trigger Cut - a very fucking valiant effort - well done young Jedi.  I was pretty keen to report this news, being the complete genius that ascended the two original problems (ahem!).   The news comes after various reports from 'The Cave Vine' of scottish Mutant Malcolm Smith coming very close, and looking very strong, but just being beaten to the pip by the young off shoot on the day - good effort boys, condolences Malcolm - do the harder link instead 'The Lou Ferrino Shot Hold finish'...   Well, I'm happy in the thought I could have done it in roller skates and under pants, but now I don't have to put the effort in!  Makes you feel weak and mutter 'must try harder, must try...'.  I just keep muttering 'bloody technicians' and 'original sequence' but alas to no avail.  Anyway must shut up now.

[Nigel]

Thoroughly hope he has, fucking awesome effort and an awesome problem. Is the grade poll for this problem or for your Trigger Cut beta?  

[Doylo]

Last i heard he was slapping for the jug, so if he hasn't yet looks like its on the cards.  Cassidy kicking malcs arse, whatever next, very impressive. Apparently malc thinks its as hard as dreamtime (8b+) so that'd be 8c in europe :!:

[Buoux 8C]

To be Honest, i cant see this been harder than 8B, although i aint done it so shouldnt really comment on it till i have, no disrespect to jamie or anyone else trying it as its obviously pretty tough. With the new Trigger cut beta and the amount of ascents its had recently i reckon Trigger cut is possibly V11  now or very soft v12, add a relatively straight forward v9 into it with a rest of sorts in between the two and you have a good 8B but no harder.
Obviously the link requires a good fitness level aswell which is maybe why malc is having trouble and Cassidy is doing well, cus he has done alot of routes, but for me if i was to compare this link to Something like malcs start in the pass i reckon the link is easier, but i do alot of routes and have a pretty good power endurance,  maybe for malc he would find Malcs start easier than the link hence he thinks it is 8b+

Also to give this link 8b+ you have to think what grade the full link of the cave would get as its without a doubt harder than the trigger cut link in my opinion, and the big link is thought to be around 8b ish aswell, so if the trigger cut link is gonna be 8b+ then the full link must be given 8b+/8c which is just isnt. maximun respect to Moony for been so close to completing the full link several years ago, just goes to show what level he was at considering no-one else has even been close since.

[Doylo]

alright rich, what you playing at downgrading louey, took me years that. Big link probably is 8b+ though surely?

[Buoux 8C]

alrite mate, for the link you exit before the end of Lou ferrino so it would make it a little easier, also i think Louie is ok for V10, but it shouldnt matter to you now as V10 is old money since you did staminaband, What i was trying to say really was that for someone like Malc Louie must feel completely piss, being very basic good holds etc so i wouldnt of thought it would make a shit load of difference for trigger cut, but im obviously been proved wrong.
You Keen for a day at Kilnsley this weekend?

[Doylo]

I wondered how long it'd take you to get stuck into some good grading debates on here! I think the hardest thing about louey is finding the best personal beta, it even feels relatively straightforward for a mortal like me now i know how to do it. So yeah mutants like yourself are gonna cruise it every time. Fuck knows what grade the link is, i'm sure it'd be at least 8b+ in switzerland or hollow mountain cave or somewhere. I is finishing uni forver tommorrow so going back to wales at weekend. Catch you soon gayboy.

[squeek]

No idea on the grade, but Fuckin' EFFORT to Jamie, I watched the video
of him doing the link yesterday  :shock: , very impressive stuff.  He
seemed a little pleased when he did it.   :D

[Scouse D]

V10 into V12=V13 I reckon
I have nothing to back this up

[Stu Littlefair]

Fuckin A!

Nice work Jamie! Can someone who knows the cave better than me say whether the link out to the lip of the cave is feasible?

As to the grade then, fuck knows. This kind of thing always gets a hard grade  on the continent. I'd suggest using Inertia Reel traverse and Ben's extension into danny's prob as benchmarks for 8a+ and 8b respectively when grading long problems. With these benchmarks I'd be surprised if its 8b+, but I suspect it would get that in the alps. Can I just say fucking good effort again.

And Mr 8c - if the grades you gave stuff at siurana on the cockfax website is anything to go at you can't grade flour. So nerrrr  :321:

[Stu Littlefair]

p.s.

Lou Ferrino is a solid 10, and the best problem on the fucking planet.

[cofe]

maybe it's time to start calling him "Butch"...

[Bonjoy]

maybe it's time to start calling him "Butch"...

 I think his mates beat you to that one by several years :wink: .

[dave]

what about "Eva"?

[Doylo]

So he has done it, in that case all i can add to what i' said before is

 :worthy:  :worthy:  :worthy:  :worthy:  :worthy:  :worthy:

Cassidy for Prime Minister  :!:

[Buoux 8C]

And Mr 8c - if the grades you gave stuff at siurana on the cockfax website is anything to go at you can't grade flour. So nerrrr  

Hi Mr 7c+, dont really understand how the grades for siurana are that fare out, ye possibly Tic i Toc is 8a+ and Kurfil is 8a with stone 8B without since a foothood was glued back in and a pocket repaired. the rest are pretty spot on unless you want to quote otherwise??? i was also a o#young gun when i wrote them comments many years ago.
Lou ferrino in My and several other peoples opinion is 7c especially to where it leaves for trigger cut, missing out out the last few moves.
Surely bens extension into Dannys is not 8B??? if so i will have to get down their for a 8b tick.

[a dense loner]

Surely bens extension into Dannys is not 8B??? if so i will have to get down their for a 8b tick.

u have to do danny's proper not the fag version people are so fond of doin then downgradin danny's.  

[c.j.d.]

Hello young cave devotees - the grades if you break them down go like this:  Lou' 7c+, brief respite, ramp into Trigger' 7c, new trigger methods 8a, Sooo...   8b/+?  Far harder than any similar problem in Britain, and probably the same as never ending' - Magic Wood.  Globe trotting super hero - I think so!!  I am not obsessed by grades at all in anyway and never will be, bye.

[Andy F]

Talking to Malc and Jamie last Sunday at the Cave they both felt it was V14 (8b+). And they Malc of all people should know what 8b+ is.

Andy F

[Stu Littlefair]

Obviously I bow to Malc's greater knowledge when it comes to these things. However, didn't he suggest dreamtime should be 8b+? And isn't that a fairly solid 8a+ into an 8a, and of comparable length? Seems miles harder than the lou ferrino-trigger cut link! I think our disabilitated bovine friend has it right when he says that the new link sounds similar to never-ending story, but I thought word on the street was that n.e.s was a bit, erm, generous at 8b+.

If I were to put these long UK problems in order of how quickly I thought I could do them I'd probably get something like....

Inertia Reel Trav -- Lou Ferrino to trigger cut -- Close of Business -- Ben's into Danny's. But of course I've actually done none of the above, so all that could be completely wrong!

[Stu Littlefair]

And Mr 8c - if the grades you gave stuff at siurana on the cockfax website is anything to go at you can't grade flour. So nerrrr  

Hi Mr 7c+, dont really understand how the grades for siurana are that fare out, ye possibly Tic i Toc is 8a+ and Kurfil is 8a with stone 8B without since a foothood was glued back in and a pocket repaired. the rest are pretty spot on unless you want to quote otherwise??? i was also a o#young gun when i wrote them comments many years ago.
Lou ferrino in My and several other peoples opinion is 7c especially to where it leaves for trigger cut, missing out out the last few moves.
Surely bens extension into Dannys is not 8B??? if so i will have to get down their for a 8b tick.

Ouch! Mr 7c+ eh? :shock:

Well, you were one over on Tic i toc, one over on Kurfil, and one lower on Cara... Given that we're all splitting hairs over one grade here I'd say three failures out of three tries pretty much disqualifies you from comment  :D

I won't argue about Lou Ferrino except to say it feels piss when you've got it dialled but is quite hard to do initially, so I'm not surprised people can't agree on a grade.

Ben's into Danny's is officially nails. It's a stunning testament to McClure's crimp strength - although I don't think he used the "approved" sequence on Danny's Problem. What makes it so difficult is that you need to be massively over-strong for danny's problem, 'cos your skin is all greasy and mashed by the time you reach it. You should get on it youth - no problem for a lad of your calibre.

[Buoux 8C]

H Stu i was been a little unfair calling you mr 7c+, perhaps i should have made it 8a. (sorry couldnt resist).

I agree i was wrong about tic i toc, but Kurfil has changed, since i first did it and is now a little easier, as i have climbed it again since tony made a bodge with the glue. La Cara is in my opion and many others only 8a, i used to warm up in the route, and truly think their is no way its 8a+, even though is suits me. Anyway it doesnt really matter since, their routes and very personal things.

I think your right about the link, not to hard climbing into a basic 8a/8a+ with good holds, dosent in my book make 8b+, but hey i aint done it, when i have if i ever do i will comment then, but i think malc is just a little unfit at the minute hence it feels hard for him, cus it is fitness based. I reckon once i get fit again, i could possibly do it quickly. The big link is also a fair bit harder in my opinion. then theirs my new project, i saw yesterday, anyone fancy a traverse of 60 ft, with only one good hold in the middle, and 2 sections of at least french 8c each. Fuck this thing is hard, and the stamina you need to do it is insane, makes the big link look piss.
Anyway off to limestone for training for my project, try to beat my best of staminaband 3 times on the trot.

CJD, dont really understand how the link is 7c+ into 7c into 8a+, Trigger cut from the ramp is easyish 8a+ and its around 7c/7c+ into it. If it where 7c+ into 7c into 8a+ then it would be for sure 8b+.

[Buoux 8C]

sorry stu,

dont really understand the rules on Dannys, you are the 2nd person to say this, just how should you do Dannys and how is this different for the easy way of Dannys. thanks rich

[Stu Littlefair]

Danny's problem can be done from a sit two ways, one quite a bit easier than the other...

The first method takes the right-hand crimp with your left hand, and then rock straight for the slopers near the top (you can use the left hand crimp as an intermediate for your right hand!).

The second method takes the crimps the obvious way (i.e. left on left, right on right) and is significantly harder. The consensus grade is for this method, which is a bit odd, but then it is an eliminate problem I guess.

I'm almost certain steve did the link using the easier method...

[c.j.d.]

Rich - Its a toughie to grade unless you've done the deed!  Hop to it young man, and we will then resume this up in the air debate.  Seeing as none of us have done the problem, but only the 'bits', its obvious we are both clueless as to the over all grade anyway.  As it stands, its an incredible feet of power endurance not to be balked at, and maybe its not the grade thats impr0nant anyway - just the significance of a fantastic, realized line that has waited a long. long time for an ascent.  Word.