[Vuk Maric]

Is anyone having informations on amount of stress placed on fingers when they are positioned the same way like in this video in comparison to normal crimping, open handed grip.. is it more stressful for fingers to be trained like in this video and does it bring more potential for injury ? Also if someone knows if any research has been done about benefits of holding a finger like this, is it more productive?
  xD
Sorry everyone for my bad english

[scottygillery]

I think the idea behind using this grip position is that it's active. i.e you have to use your muscles to hold the position. Using muscles = better because they will get stronger! Also you are not relying on ligaments, tendons or bones like you are in the crimp or open handed so less stress on those parts and so less injury risk.

I'm afraid i'm not aware of any research into this.

[lagerstarfish]

some stuff here

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=20967.0

somewhere in here

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php/topic,20341.0.html

and here

http://ukbouldering.com/board/index.php?topic=20415.0

I own up to watching the Parsons-Webb video at 5am, but only because the little lad managed to navigate there from this thread and he wanted to watch it (wtf?!)

My English is pretty good, but I was confused by CPW saying at one point that this is the program he has followed since he started climbing and then later saying that it is a program that he has developed after years of trial and error

I was disappointed when Dense failed to appear dressed as a Samurai or Ninja to demonstrate the program

[Baldy]

Gresham backs the position, and made it sound like it was based on science.


I have no links for you.

[shark]

On the face it this appears to have similarities and potential advantages over Eva Lopez style weighted deadhangs as it isolates each arm and you are engaging at different joint angles as long as a. you're fingers are already strong enough not to need much assistance b. you're shoulder is already strong enough that engaging isn't the weakest link

[Nibile]

I don't understand why mixing deadhangs and lock offs at different angles. I prefer to work different abilities separatedly.
Also, letting go of the sling and forcing the fingers to open up, seems very dangerous to me. Eccentric contraption with no control whatsoever...
CWP is a beast anyway.
And was trained by Core.

[a dense loner]

Chris is clearly barking but on a hold he is one of the strongest people out there, take from that what you will. The stress on the fingers is far more than crimping or open handing but that's the whole point
No, he did a core training plan for a few mths. Big difference nibs

[iwasmexican]

i ve always been told to train safe and never crimp (usually drag) but for me crimping has been far more beneficial (when was the last time you actually dragged a hold on a problem?).... so long as you re careful i think its the way to go

[scottygillery]

i ve always been told to train safe and never crimp (usually drag) but for me crimping has been far more beneficial (when was the last time you actually dragged a hold on a problem?).... so long as you re careful i think its the way to go

Once I stopped crimping in training... ALL THE FRIGGIN' TIME.

[Monolith]

I didn't hear a single word of that (in work) but it hardly looked like rocket science?

Pinching a cord by incremental reductions in numbers of fingers used, is that the gist? Please tell me I'm missing more? For what it's worth (I'm shite but not stupid and can deadhang a pair of 5ps but not actually climb anything) I enjoyed attaching a set of digital fishing scales in the link between cord - board. This way you can get some poundage attached to your gains and work a bit more with SCIENCE.

[Baldy]

i ve always been told to train safe and never crimp (usually drag) but for me crimping has been far more beneficial (when was the last time you actually dragged a hold on a problem?).... so long as you re careful i think its the way to go

Once I stopped crimping in training... ALL THE FRIGGIN' TIME.

Seconded - after the third or fourth A2 injury, I decided to incorporate a large amount of warming up on 3 finger open handed holds and eventually fin myself in the position that I never crimp on easy boulders any more. I'll drag or open hand everything (mainly because I am concerned about another injury). On top end boulders I still crimp where required of course...but carefully.

Open handed is the way to go if you can.

[Vuk Maric]

Thanks everyone, you all helped  and "lagerstarfish" thanks for the links. Neil explained use of half-crimp in training. I asked also Dave MacLeod what he thinks about program.. if he replies I will post it here 

[Moo]

Open handed is good. no doubt but i'd much rather have demon crimp strength.

[Doylo]

I like the look of it as you don't have to add weight which my elbows don't agree with.

[Nibile]

The crimp/half crimp/drag is a false problem in my opinion. You have to train everything because each prehension trains basically itself. Only, I think it's important to train them wisely. I don't crimp on a hangboard. I crimp on the board.
I deadhang half crimped to get maximum effort from the fingers, but I also train monos and openhanded holds. Not because I climb on monos or because I drag everything, but because it can happen to get a hold not precisely and to need, nonetheless, to bone down on it regardless of how well you latched it.

[Nibile]

Also, both crimping and openhanding can cause injuries. Crimping injuries are more relateed to pulleys, joints and finger tendons; openhanding ones are more related to wrists, elbows and forearm tendons.
And yes, I've had horrible injuries while openhanding.

[iwasmexican]

i ve always been told to train safe and never crimp (usually drag) but for me crimping has been far more beneficial (when was the last time you actually dragged a hold on a problem?).... so long as you re careful i think its the way to go

Once I stopped crimping in training... ALL THE FRIGGIN' TIME.

Seconded - after the third or fourth A2 injury, I decided to incorporate a large amount of warming up on 3 finger open handed holds and eventually fin myself in the position that I never crimp on easy boulders any more. I'll drag or open hand everything (mainly because I am concerned about another injury). On top end boulders I still crimp where required of course...but carefully.

Open handed is the way to go if you can.

ok so i dont want to sound like i  meant crimping everything is the way to go, but when you re trying something maximum (physical) difficulty i think you ll get further crimping hard than dragging everything.

The crimp/half crimp/drag is a false problem in my opinion. You have to train everything because each prehension trains basically itself. Only, I think it's important to train them wisely. I don't crimp on a hangboard. I crimp on the board.

dont want to twist what you said here but saying you crimp on the board is related to this, that when you re trying really hard on something crimping is the more likely (depending on holds of course) to be the way to go than open handed or dragging?

[Nibile]

I don't know!!! 
It depends on the hold, as you said. I crimp when the hold, for example, has no catch, and half crimping could suddenly slip. If it's small but with good edge I tend to half crimp.
I hope this helps!

[douglas]

Am I missing something but his forearms are huge and I don't believe it is through hanging for total 90 seconds twice a week...?

[chillax]

Am I missing something but his forearms are huge and I don't believe it is through hanging for total 90 seconds twice a week...?

I'd imagine he gets out climbing occasionally too 

In the interests of SCIENCE, I volunteer as guinea pig. I started this routine last week and have done 2 sessions so far. I'm a very open handed centric climber and have put the time in doing open handed repeaters on the Beastmaker (best efforts were hanging the 45s for 15 seconds and the 35s one handed for 5 seconds). But I'm rubbish at crimping as I avoid it and haven't specifically trained it. Will report back in 4 weeks with my findings.

[lmarenzi]

Let us know if the tattoos become bigger with increase arm circumference 

Disappointed to not see the Shark's bicep kiss (TM) on some of those lock-offs, shirley there must be a way to work them in?

[shark]

Am I missing something but his forearms are huge and I don't believe it is through hanging for total 90 seconds twice a week...?

I expect he finds time to climb as well

[lagerstarfish]

Am I missing something but his forearms are huge and I don't believe it is through hanging for total 90 seconds twice a week...?

he's dangerously close to the point where he'll start falling off due to his forearms being too big

[SEDur]

A well known climbing coach (who will remain nameless for the time being) showed me an identical exercise to this about 1.2 years ago. He also advised training the nervous system by using weights for pull ups.

I don't know if this style of exercise alone will get you fingers of steel...

But based on the reading I have done (cannot find direct academic references) and coaching I have received, training has to be multi-faceted.

This is predominantly based in conjecture, as I cannot provide academic references. But here is what I can cobble together.

This work out can cover active resistance (maintaining arm position on larger holds), finger strength (pulling for time on smaller holds half crimped) and recruitment (if you let go of and grab the assistance, as I think CWP is describing when he talks about the use of assistance and the relation to climbing).

A great addition for after this workout would be weighted pull ups (max weighted, followed by max without weight then progress to larger hold and repeat). Or some other exercise to work recruitment like double clutches and deadpointing on the campus board.

Core and shoulder work is always of course a necessary part of any extra training, as you have to train everything equally to avoid injury.

Also remember tendons take time to improve, and the older you are the longer it may take (don't take that for gospel, it is based on hear-say).
 
I am probably going to get flamed as this is my second post on this forum.... but these are my two cents.

This will help if you do it regularly as part of a training schedule which is additional to lots of climbing.

[Baldy]

I am probably going to get flamed as this is my second post on this forum.... but these are my two cents.

OMG!!!!!?!?!?

THIS IS QUITE LITERALLY THE MOST STUPID THING I HAVE EVER READ!
I HATE it when people like you come into the forum spouting CRAP like this with no respect for the background. Do you even lurk? I mean really. I'm disgusted. Go away and increase your post numbers before trying to add a considered opinion to the conversation. What do we look like? Friendly people? Fuck you.

NSFW  :

(well you gave me the idea  )

But seriously, I would imagine that this workout is mainly about increasing the raw pulling power no?
I have always imagined grip strength in two ways.

Raw power (static moves on/to shitty holds)
&
Ability to reach a percentage of this power quickly (dynamic moves where you need to grab on quickly)

They both require different training regimes, and I'd imagine that you will already be much better at one than the other due to the way you climb. For example - I'm heavy and weak so I dont like to lockoff on shitty holds. Instead, I deadpoint well and try to pull hard when I hit the hold. I would imagine that this workout would do wonders for my climbing as it trains the thing I am bad at - I can double campus up boards with relative ease compared to doing a similar ladder with lockoffs.