[c.j.d.]

Alright Greg Luv, how's it going?

Just to put forward a view (and that's all it is).  Both Neon Handshake and Poppy's Move are 8b, and unrepeated.  That's a fact - I know, I've climbed them, and lots more 8b's like them which where easier.

Compact Culture had a foothold break which makes the standard sequence harder (apparently).  I didn't use it in the first place, so probably 8b.  Grumble grumble  .

Well done on the psyche for this list - brilliant.

[nodder]

Dave is slightly sleep deprived and annoyed at present so maybe should be ignored...

Dolly Rocker FA is Me

Halfway House Was Malcolm
Trigger cut cant get 8a as the knees make it easy (again I keep getting told about 7b+ so they must be right)
Therefore Halfway must be at most 8a, therefore the link into uppercut must be 8a+ at a push, according to Dyer  "not sure the uppercut links actually make a difference to the grade of anything because if you cant do the finish you will have already have fallen off going for the end move on directors" or words to that effect.
Therefore Directors must be at most 8a+.  (Its just waiting for someone to climb it with the kneebars, me I aint going to bother as limestone seems to bring out the worst in people.  It must be like dawes said climbing on dead sea creatures is bad for your chi)
Daisy from concrete is easier than Broken trigger so 8a (Doylo says, and i think hes probably right)

Mr Fantastic was apparently 8a before the hold grew and is now way easier so 7c+
Cross therapy is similar so 7c+

Broken heart is not 8a with new betas

I thought Beatitudes Kiss was quite hard at 8a (pinch), dont know if Jordan said 7c+?  but it has the new version of the v8+ grade attached!
As with the kneebars on trigger that annoyed everyone so much, greenheart Dans finish ect can be done bypassing the crux undercut move therefore they must be 8a at most.
The wire is a very similar grade to them so 8a for that as well.
Full circle I think Settled at 8a in the end.  Me and CJD had half the sequence each his hands my feet = 1 semi decent boulderer.
You should include Lou Ferrino chipless its ace and roughly 8a.

broken sam and the highlife are both 7c+ now I think?

Liam Desroy Linked Rockattrocity to Clyde in 2008ish?  8a+.

So there we go.

[Paul B]

Mr Fantastic was apparently 8a before the hold grew and is now way easier so 7c+

Which hold, has the broken foothold grown again? Its hard to keep up with ever evolving problems and their respective grades!

[nodder]

The start hold of bus stop that you get the heel hook in.

[willackers]

Another one for Yorkshire.

Almscliff
Hymen Traverse - 8A - I did it in 2011 and I think it was the first ascent?

Great way to finish the Virgin Traverse.

[andy_e]

Updated! Anyone think of any more Yorkshire knowledge?

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AoSRjxmc-dJsdEVMS2RodGJXY3pFSEoyVXVndFQzQWc&output=html

[r-man]

What about the North York Moors stuff? Can't see that anywhere, or have I missed something?

[Greg C]

Any interest in adding South Wales problems to the list?
Namely Wife of Fyfe and Body Wisdom.

Wife of Fyfe is 8A, not 8A+? At least, that's what it says on Dave Macleod's blog.

I was going off the UKC logbook, but will change.

[Greg C]

Alright Greg Luv, how's it going?

Just to put forward a view (and that's all it is).  Both Neon Handshake and Poppy's Move are 8b, and unrepeated.  That's a fact - I know, I've climbed them, and lots more 8b's like them which where easier.

Compact Culture had a foothold break which makes the standard sequence harder (apparently).  I didn't use it in the first place, so probably 8b.  Grumble grumble  .

Well done on the psyche for this list - brilliant.

Changed 'Neon Handshake'. Is 'Poppy's Move' the same problem as 'Poppy's Reach' and if so what name do you want to use in the list?

[Greg C]

Dave is slightly sleep deprived and annoyed at present so maybe should be ignored...

Dolly Rocker FA is Me

Halfway House Was Malcolm
Trigger cut cant get 8a as the knees make it easy (again I keep getting told about 7b+ so they must be right)
Therefore Halfway must be at most 8a, therefore the link into uppercut must be 8a+ at a push, according to Dyer  "not sure the uppercut links actually make a difference to the grade of anything because if you cant do the finish you will have already have fallen off going for the end move on directors" or words to that effect.
Therefore Directors must be at most 8a+.  (Its just waiting for someone to climb it with the kneebars, me I aint going to bother as limestone seems to bring out the worst in people.  It must be like dawes said climbing on dead sea creatures is bad for your chi)
Daisy from concrete is easier than Broken trigger so 8a (Doylo says, and i think hes probably right)

Mr Fantastic was apparently 8a before the hold grew and is now way easier so 7c+
Cross therapy is similar so 7c+

Broken heart is not 8a with new betas

I thought Beatitudes Kiss was quite hard at 8a (pinch), dont know if Jordan said 7c+?  but it has the new version of the v8+ grade attached!
As with the kneebars on trigger that annoyed everyone so much, greenheart Dans finish ect can be done bypassing the crux undercut move therefore they must be 8a at most.
The wire is a very similar grade to them so 8a for that as well.
Full circle I think Settled at 8a in the end.  Me and CJD had half the sequence each his hands my feet = 1 semi decent boulderer.
You should include Lou Ferrino chipless its ace and roughly 8a.

broken sam and the highlife are both 7c+ now I think?

Liam Desroy Linked Rockattrocity to Clyde in 2008ish?  8a+.

So there we go.

Think I've attended to this as best I can.

[Greg C]

What about the North York Moors stuff? Can't see that anywhere, or have I missed something?

Asked Lee for help with this but he was a bit reticent to give me the info: something to do with not wanting to attract people to the crags without the relevant access information.

[Greg C]

What about the North York Moors stuff? Can't see that anywhere, or have I missed something?

Asked Lee for help with this but he was a bit reticent to give me the info: something to do with not wanting to attract people to the crags without the relevant access information.

I've added the 5 I could fathom from web videos, blogs etc.

[Pantontino]

Dave is slightly sleep deprived and annoyed at present so maybe should be ignored...

Dolly Rocker FA is Me

Halfway House Was Malcolm
Trigger cut cant get 8a as the knees make it easy (again I keep getting told about 7b+ so they must be right)
Therefore Halfway must be at most 8a, therefore the link into uppercut must be 8a+ at a push, according to Dyer  "not sure the uppercut links actually make a difference to the grade of anything because if you cant do the finish you will have already have fallen off going for the end move on directors" or words to that effect.
Therefore Directors must be at most 8a+.  (Its just waiting for someone to climb it with the kneebars, me I aint going to bother as limestone seems to bring out the worst in people.  It must be like dawes said climbing on dead sea creatures is bad for your chi)
Daisy from concrete is easier than Broken trigger so 8a (Doylo says, and i think hes probably right)

Mr Fantastic was apparently 8a before the hold grew and is now way easier so 7c+
Cross therapy is similar so 7c+

Broken heart is not 8a with new betas

I thought Beatitudes Kiss was quite hard at 8a (pinch), dont know if Jordan said 7c+?  but it has the new version of the v8+ grade attached!
As with the kneebars on trigger that annoyed everyone so much, greenheart Dans finish ect can be done bypassing the crux undercut move therefore they must be 8a at most.
The wire is a very similar grade to them so 8a for that as well.
Full circle I think Settled at 8a in the end.  Me and CJD had half the sequence each his hands my feet = 1 semi decent boulderer.
You should include Lou Ferrino chipless its ace and roughly 8a.

broken sam and the highlife are both 7c+ now I think?

Liam Desroy Linked Rockattrocity to Clyde in 2008ish?  8a+.

So there we go.

Think I've attended to this as best I can.

Welcome to my world Greg - less a guidebook writer, more an argument referee!     

Poppy's Move and Neon Handshake were both given 8A+ by Chris originally... 

Compact Culture was graded 8B by Chris, but Tyler thought 8A+ when he repeated it (thus the split grade, as is normal procedure). - not sure about this broken foothold?

I'm sure there'll be more  along the way. That's fine, just as long as we all stay friends at the end, right? 

[Pantontino]

... and I didn't even mention kneebars. 

[Greg C]

That's fine, just as long as we all stay friends at the end, right? 

There's no such thing as friends when it comes to lists - cold, hard, completely ambiguous facts 

[andy_e]

ambiguous facts

Sweet! I love ambiguous facts.

[Greg C]

Back on track: Dave MacLeod has has given me his feedback on the Scots list and I have updated it accordingly.

[nodder]

There is no arguing with facts, and the fact is that grades don't work!  If they cant deal with morphology i.e Trigger and the knees, keen and the reach, finger size in slots on Downset, then grades are too narrow.  Furthermore if as a group we cant decide on benchmarks for grades, which we almost did but everyone got bored of before we did, then there is no frame of reference to even bother trying. 

Different body types are here to stay.  As are different styles I find 7c+ in Le foret easier than in Cymru, but apparently every one drives "west out of Sheffield for a easy day"  I apologise for the arsey nature of my conversations about grades but when you have all sorted them out let me know and I will try to use them again.  Till then its 5, 5+,6,6+,7,7+,8 and 8+ (I wish) for me.  Because if any of you are sure that the 7b+ wasn't a 7b on a weak day or a 7c on a strong day or whatever then yes I am pretty sure you have at best a 50/50 chance of being right.   

Anyway did you not see the interview with Tyson Gay where he was complaining about Usain Bolt getting his "big legs out"? 

[Paul B]

There is no arguing with facts, and the fact is that grades don't work!

Agreed although they don't really matter either 

[nodder]

Agreed although they don't really matter either 

Believe me I try to believe this.  I really really do.  Unfortunately the one above whatever I have done always seems so appealing.  But that's because I am a competitive egotistical fool.  Still you must know yourself to change yourself.

[Doylo]

Ha ha now the world knows what's been going round North Waleans inbox's for the last 4 months 

[nodder]

You be quiet Doylo, I still have the message where you told me you thought I should grade Broken trigger 8a+.  Turncoat.

[Jaspersharpe]

If I wasn't using Tapatalk I'd post the can of worms smiley.

[Doylo]

You be quiet Doylo, I still have the message where you told me you thought I should grade Broken trigger 8a+.  Turncoat.

Only so you'd look like a fool when it got downgraded 

[nodder]

So is it 3 or 4 years of trying it now?