To summarise:Getting strong on certain sizes of holds transfers best to similar holds. (Who would have thought it)
The texture/ resin that the board is made of makes training on it a bit like setting fire to all your fingers, then smashing a door shut on them repeatedly for a few hours, then pouring acid on them, only worse.
I thought that was the opposite of what she was claiming? that getting strong (with added weight) on larger holds transfers to small holds, but vice-versa doesn't.
QuoteMY ANSWER:Look, no exercise transfers to everything, and no correlation in biomedic science is perfect, or equal to 1. This means that one variable can explain part of the variance of another, but never 100% of it. This is why I just can say that there is a correlation (0,79 to be exact) between maximum added weight on a 15 mm edge for 5 seconds and maximum time on a 10 mm edge. There is another interesting and logical result that I found in another study that will be included in my thesis: there is correlation between maximum time in 10 mm and time in 8 and 12 mm; these in turn have correlation with 6 and 14 mm respectively. However, no measure could predict the performance for all edge depths.Perhaps its poor wording, but that sounds very unusual from a statistical stand-point.I'd be interested to see if she done anything more sophisticated than simply calculate correlation coefficients with her data.
MY ANSWER:Look, no exercise transfers to everything, and no correlation in biomedic science is perfect, or equal to 1. This means that one variable can explain part of the variance of another, but never 100% of it. This is why I just can say that there is a correlation (0,79 to be exact) between maximum added weight on a 15 mm edge for 5 seconds and maximum time on a 10 mm edge. There is another interesting and logical result that I found in another study that will be included in my thesis: there is correlation between maximum time in 10 mm and time in 8 and 12 mm; these in turn have correlation with 6 and 14 mm respectively. However, no measure could predict the performance for all edge depths.
I would take from what that, that when you get much smaller than 6, it's nails so some folk will be able to do it and others won't even be able to take the pain, and when you get much above 14mm, you get very near the joint (depending on grip type/morphology) so ability would vary wildly from one griptype/climber to another. You would only expect correlation where all force is applied through the pad (and not the joint or bone end)
Quote from: rodma on July 27, 2012, 01:42:21 pmI would take from what that, that when you get much smaller than 6, it's nails so some folk will be able to do it and others won't even be able to take the pain, and when you get much above 14mm, you get very near the joint (depending on grip type/morphology) so ability would vary wildly from one griptype/climber to another. You would only expect correlation where all force is applied through the pad (and not the joint or bone end)I'd expect there would still be a relationship outside of the pairs stated, even if its non-linear, that have been tested for correlation within the ranges stated. Extrapolating outside of the ranges studied/reported is always dubious.
Anyway in a typical session, I'm constantly alternating max and sub max hangs, because on certain holds I am a lot stronger and I can't add too much weight, because it's a hassle, I keep the same weight and hang for longer. Also a lot longer. So, to target the stronger prehensions at their max, I prefer to switch to one handed hangs, with or without assistance. And the circle is complete: from one handed, to Lopez, to one handed! Ringkomposition!
I still think that one armed hangs (even with assistance) are much better.
AnonymousFebruary 16, 2012 11:19 PMI was curious: are your dead hangs performed with two hands or one arm? whats your oppinion about this? Great Post by the way!ReplyRepliesEva LópezFebruary 18, 2012 8:01 PMHi, thanks for your participation! All your questions are really interesting;-)I usually perform my dead hangs with two hands, and that is the position I propose here.Nevertheless ,one-handed dead hangs can be adequate for those with a very high level of maximum finger strength (who "unfortunately" need to use added weight representing more than 70% of their body mass, or have to use edges less than 6 mm-deep). Going one-handed for them would represent using no or little added weight (good for their lower back) or choosing bigger edges (good for their skin). But this change in the style implies a less stable posture that can be difficult to master. In fact, when hanging off one arm we no longer can focus on holding from the edge and avoid swinging when lifting our feet off the ground; we have also to fight the tendency of the body to rotate, and keep our elbow slightly flexed to put less strain on it and on the shoulder/neck.Testing would be needed to see if this can be useful to climbers with a less demanding profile, but anyway I'll tell you that I usually don't recommend training schedules with a steep and fast progression. I tend to first use the easiest methods and loads that promote adaptation in the body, and slowly increase the load and difficulty in a process that can take years. This allows us to enjoy greater long-term improvement and to reduce the risk of injuries.Regards.
AnonymousJune 12, 2012 8:05 PMHi Eva,I would like to have your opinion about one arm dead hangs. do you think it's better to do one arm dead hangs or two arm dead hangs with a lot of added weight?thanksAdrienReplyRepliesEva LópezJuly 3, 2012 12:28 PMHi Adrien,You can find some of my thougths about it in a previous commentI can add a couple of cases where they could be of use:- For people with pain in their elbows caused by overuse of their pronator muscles, that as you know have their insertions in the elbow. By doing one-hand deadhangs we switch to a neutral position of the forearm, where the palm is facing us instead of facing away from us. This way we release some of the stress on these muscles.- For working our strength with the open hand type of grip, on holds 30-40 mm deep, or specific one-hand maximum strength, especially for bouldering.- Taking advantage of the fact that this position is unstable in nature, so we can work our body tension along with our fingers but, as I comment in the link above, only for the most experienced climbers.As you can see, there are several uses to one-handed deadhangs, but beware, one of the drawbacks of performing them is that you must at all times watch your shoulder for signs of fatigue or over-extension, because it is the weak link in this exercise.
Did my 35 second test hang at the gym. Was slightly worried I wasn't going to manage it, but thankfully it was easy. Next step, get a hold of a 18mm campus rung.
But are you still maintaining the 3 second 'effort level' margin she recommend? Or have just progressed to maximum effort hangs in pursuit of gold and glory?
Just done a session with 4x10secs with 7.5kg added - another PB. I wasnt expecting to get past 5kg but it went down OK with 40 seconds of grimacing. This is my 3rd week on the small hold (about 13mm) and compares favourably with the first session when I was the same weight and required 2.5kg off - so that represents a 10kg improvement in 16 days. Unfortunately I can only fit this one session this week given that a day's prior rest is required. So two sessions next week and then the 8 week cycle is over. After that some finger endurance training. I guess.
How is your skin coping Shark? The holds looks horrible.
Did you do 4 weeks on the 18mm and 4 on the 13mm? Is that what you are referring to for your 8 week cycle?What does Eva say to do once this is complete? At what point do you go back to another cycle?
Day Reps Added Weight (kg)07/23/2012 3 41.307/26/2012 5 41.307/30/2012 5 43.408/02/2012 4 45.8For reference, here are the first 4 weeks:Day Reps Added Weight (kg)06/12/2012 4 31.806/15/2012 5 31.806/21/2012 4 36.306/25/2012 3 39.506/27/2012 5 39.507/03/2012 4 41.307/07/2012 5 41.3I've also decreased body weight over the course of this cycle from 78.5kg to 76.7kg.
