what percentage of your bodyweight do you think you can safely and easily hang off yourself and perform these hangs?I'm asking because I'd imagine that if you take someone relatively steely fingered, 18mm might result in a ridiculous amount of weight being required, making practicality a limiting factor.
After testing the small hold hangs, I came to the conclusion that doing this is very tough on your skin. As my skin needs to be in shape for climbing outside, I am not doing the small holds cycle at this time. I will most likely try it again during the winter. I am however going to take a week off, then do another 4-week cycle of weighted hangs on the 18mm edge.
Speaking of small edges and trainingIn an own study (López Rivera, E. and Gonzalez Badillo, JJ Article in preparation), we found correlation between the maximum ballast supported for 5 seconds on an edge of 15mm, and the smallest edge hung for 10 seconds. This result is in line with the study of Bourne et al. (2011), who found significant positive relationship between the maximum applied force in newtons on an edge of 12.8mm, and developed on 7.3 and 5.8mm.The above results, together with the fact that in our study (Lopez, E. and Gonzalez Badillo, JJ, 2012), in the group that trained for 4 weeks with added weight on an edge of 18mm we found significant positive correlation between the results in percentage improvement in strength, and the improvement in maximum time on an edge of 11mm without ballast, as well as in the minimum size of an edge hung for 10 seconds, means:- After training with ballast on an edge of medium size, as is 18 mm, we found improvement in hanging for longer on a smaller edge (11mm) and being able to hold smaller edges. these Improvements, as we all know, sometimes determine success in a climb.As for practical aspects of training and climbing on very small edges The same study of Bourne et al. (2011), the force applied to very small edges as 4.3 and 2.8mm, had no correlation with the maximum force applied at 12.5mm, but with anthropometric factors such as having a minimum volume of the pad formed between the end of the phalanx bone and the fingertip (distance between bone and fingertip).
I wasn't so much asking what she was advocating, I was asking how much weight you feel you can feasibly and safely hang from a belt, rucksack etc. before it becomes less than practical.
The same study of Bourne et al. (2011), the force applied to very small edges as 4.3 and 2.8mm, had no correlation with the maximum force applied at 12.5mm, but with anthropometric factors such as having a minimum volume of the pad formed between the end of the phalanx bone and the fingertip (distance between bone and fingertip).
Thanks.Like Pritch I've done powerpulls in the past and although at the time I was using a very poor belt (probably the same one?), there's no way it was ever comfortable, and I'm fairly sceptical of hanging 70% additional bodyweight from a standard harness.QuoteThe same study of Bourne et al. (2011), the force applied to very small edges as 4.3 and 2.8mm, had no correlation with the maximum force applied at 12.5mm, but with anthropometric factors such as having a minimum volume of the pad formed between the end of the phalanx bone and the fingertip (distance between bone and fingertip).i.e. it doesn't matter how much weight you can hang at 12.5mm? I'm not sure I'm willing to accept that this is anthropometric factors at work. Are we to believe Variable, Smitton and other climbers with beastly finger strength all have the same length fingertip or is it more likely that they've spent a LOT of time using small holds deadhanging even?Its probably evident that I'm a little sceptical (more so when a product is involved), maybe mainly on practical grounds; I'm unconvinced how much room for manoeuvre there is with hold sizes and weight.Also (and maybe I'll be shot down in flames here), I'd hazard a guess that the average finger strength here (UK) is greater than that in Spain, certainly shoulder injuries are a lot more common over there, and finger injuries less so (this is anecdotal but unsurprising if you simply compare the style of boards used). This compounds my above thoughts; her rungs are flat and large, I've seen people knock out one arm, crimped encores on the beastmaker. Where does Lopez fit in with that?It doesn't help that I've just done a Scholar search and can't find the paper itself. Has anyone actually read it and if so a link would be much appreciated)?
Quote from: Paul B on July 14, 2012, 07:26:00 pmThanks.QuoteThe same study of Bourne et al. (2011), the force applied to very small edges as 4.3 and 2.8mm, had no correlation with the maximum force applied at 12.5mm, but with anthropometric factors such as having a minimum volume of the pad formed between the end of the phalanx bone and the fingertip (distance between bone and fingertip).i.e. it doesn't matter how much weight you can hang at 12.5mm? I'm not sure I'm willing to accept that this is anthropometric factors at work. Are we to believe Variable, Smitton and other climbers with beastly finger strength all have the same length fingertip or is it more likely that they've spent a LOT of time using small holds deadhanging even?i read it: finger strength gained on the 12.5 and 15 mm rungs will translate to smaller rungs, down to 5.8 mm, which is good news for training as the smaller holds tend to be harder on the fingers. if you want to get better on even smaller holds (4.3-2., you're going to have to train specifically for them and find out what kind of grip will suit your morphology (i speculate that the correlation ends there because the usual grip positions will not fit anymore, i have pretty big hands and if i weight the tips in an open crimp, the front 4 mm is soft flesh, there is now way i'm going to hold on to 4.3mm in that grip position, i'd have to go nails in, so in practice i just try another boulder problem)
Thanks.QuoteThe same study of Bourne et al. (2011), the force applied to very small edges as 4.3 and 2.8mm, had no correlation with the maximum force applied at 12.5mm, but with anthropometric factors such as having a minimum volume of the pad formed between the end of the phalanx bone and the fingertip (distance between bone and fingertip).i.e. it doesn't matter how much weight you can hang at 12.5mm? I'm not sure I'm willing to accept that this is anthropometric factors at work. Are we to believe Variable, Smitton and other climbers with beastly finger strength all have the same length fingertip or is it more likely that they've spent a LOT of time using small holds deadhanging even?
Update.On Tuesday using the same hold I did 4x10secs with 2.5kg assistance. Just now I did 4x10secs with 2.5kg added. And I weigh more.
It's nice having this group of guinea pigs for this new training strategy, if only we could get a few hundred people doing it there might be a paper in it!
